Why did you write that OXP?

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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Cholmondely »

Switeck wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:41 pm Most of the pseudo-OXPs I make are proof-of-concept ideas only.

Nullgate v0.1 OXP for instance was my hack of a jump gate to other systems. It is a complete failure in the sense that it's completely random which system it jumps you to, doesn't cost anything to use, and didn't do what I wanted it to...BUT is potentially a starting point bigger and better things.

OMEGA.oxp ...Started out as a basic player-usable Constrictor and quickly got hacked to the point where it vastly outclasses its parent ship. It is strictly a cheat which I use for testing other things. A fast "eyeball" (with lasers and missiles!) that can cloak and look around to see that the system and various NPC ships are behaving as they should.

ShipSpawner v0.1.oxp is something I consolidated recently from various other ideas. It creates NPC ships "on demand" for testing, since I don't use console. It's very simple, but I copied some of the framework from Deep Space Pirates OXP to make it work. It's what allowed me to test my mod (below) and discover NPC "jousting" problems.

Switeck_mod_v0.4.oxp ...which I'm currently working on is my attempt to "go beyond" the basic game without adding any new ships (or currently, any new .js scripts). It has enhanced AI behavior not seen in the original game, though v1.75 is catching up somewhat in that regard. If anything, much of what's in this mod is what I wish was in the basic game. You may be hearing more about this in the near future on my message thread for it.
Switeck,

did you ever produce any other proof-of concept oxp's?
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Switeck »

As for why I make OXPs...and do I have any other proof-of-concept OXPs...

Post subject: Cargo Contract Cruelty
http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.ph ... 63#p161763
...kinda explains itself for why I modded the cargo contracts.

Auto-ECM
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9765
I did because other antimissile systems were often a combination of overpowered, expensive, the NPCs couldn't use them, or nonsensical.

Misjump Analyser
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6620
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php?title=Misjump_Analyser
...Wasn't made by me, but here's a bit about it:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=229257#p229257
And the post above it mentioning what I did to my version. I still need to add logic to my version to catch reprogrammed Galactic Hyperspace jumps.

Misjump Inducer
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9551
This was made because misjumping on a wormhole is slightly annoying/tricky to do.

Null Gates
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=139264#p139264
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=139372#p139372
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=139470#p139470
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=139500#p139500
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=139760#p139760
...is a VERY long ways from done.

Quantum Drive
...mentioned here:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=156586#p156586
Modifies the Galactic Hyperspace behavior to allow for quite impressive results. Good for testing and balanced enough for non-cheating use, but apparently the old download links are broken.

Switeck's Shipping
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8212
Because the default AI in the game when I first played it was pretty bad, such as the "jousting" I saw. It's been considerably improved since then, so this OXP isn't as needed.

Variable Jump Drive
While it seems I never officially released my results, here's where I came up with the idea for it:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13085
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=189016#p189016
Cim had to code a way for the game to handle non-standard misjumps before I could make anything...
It allows different destinations than the standard misjump and allows you to reach some "unreachable" systems...if you are using many misjumps and basically infinite jump fuel.
Obviously, this has to be used with Misjump Inducer to work with wormholes.

I am, as far as I know, the initial discoverer of a misjump route to reach the otherwise unreachable Oresrati in Galaxy Chart 8:
http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.ph ... 25#p128025
The posts after that hint of my work on Null Gates OXP, and the immense difficulties of making an OXP like that.
As a result of this discovery, I collaborated with Okti so he could make OneWayTicket2Oresrat and LinkG7.
Similarly, I helped on Thargoid Witchspace Drive by Capt Murphy.
Okti's OneWayTicket2Oresrat OXP quickly catapulted my extremely primitive auto-jumping OXPs to more complex results...
What I use now has many jump route shortcuts, with my intent to find ever-quicker routes via misjumps. Because of the almost game-breaking nature of these OXPs, I haven't officially released them...I'm always tweaking them anyway.
I had hoped to put the best jump logic into Null Gates OXP, complete with differing results based on mission/event progress...but that's a level of complexity I don't wish to tackle just yet!

I also have percent-based misjump routes to reach the unreachable systems in Galaxy Chart 3. There does not seem to be a way to do the same to the unreachable systems in Galaxy Chart 6, although I've looked pretty extensively for a loophole to at least reach the top pair. The bottom pair of unreachable systems are clearly impossible to reach using misjumps.

I make it a point to not place testing and cheat-like OXPs on the auto-download OXZ list, so much of my stuff does not filter out very far.
Older versions tended to be very buggy and I likewise am uninterested in keeping download links to them "live".
But I sometimes put out new versions on request.
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Switeck »

Misjump Inducer v0.3...link hidden in first post at:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9551

Quantum Drive now available at:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21146

Variable Jump Drive now available at:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21147
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Cholmondely »

Switeck wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:39 pm As for why I make OXPs...and do I have any other proof-of-concept OXPs...
I'm sorry, I must have been suffering from a senior moment and missed the significance of this one (old age, my advancing senility, the relentless death of my brain cells...)

How do you want this one handled, Switeck?

I can put up pages for each of them with the information here and in your ReadMe's. Can you still get into the wiki to edit what I do?

Or would you rather do it yourself and let me handle the links?

Note: Maik was acting as gatekeeper for the wiki but has not logged in since July (the others are Ahruman, Selezen and Winston: only Maik has been truly active since I joined, Selezen & Winston each briefly visited. Ahruman has occulted).

PM's no longer work and remain invisible unless a visitor logs in. But reposting of old posts are still announced by e-mail to those quoted. As are quotes on threads which one has initiated (unless turned off on the wiki preferences).
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Cody »

Cholmondely wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:43 pmBut reposting of old posts are still announced by e-mail to those quoted. As are quotes on threads which one has initiated...
To clarify: PMs no longer trigger notification emails, whereas quotes do (if enabled in your UCP).
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Bugbear »

Would it be offensive to anyone here if I put up an idea I want to make happen?

Forgiveness being easier to obtain that permission, I will plod on regardless.

Witchspace Maintenance (that's a working title. Not sure what I'll call it).
This is inspired in part from my real life work. I work in IT primarily in the administration of ITSM toolsets (anyone heard of ServiceNow?).

ITSM (Information Technology Service Management - for anyone that's interested) is built on the Information Technology Infrastructure Library framework which provides recommendations for how to manage your IT infrastructure.

A component of this is a concept of Change Management. This is a set of guidelines for managing how to do things like upgrade software, install servers, even trivial things like rebooting servers that host important software. A lot of it (should) include providing notificatons for when infrastructure will be offline as a result of maintenance and improvement work.

Drew's books also provided some inspiration for this idea. I think it was in the opening chapter of Incursio where Galcop forces commenced destruction of witchpoint stations. I got to thinking - we have witchpoint beacons. In my headcanon they are targeted by the ship's witchpoint drive when jumping from system-to-system. So what if the reliability of these beacons was a function of the government type and planetary GDP? What if it was standard practice for planetary governments to take down their witchpoint beacon for maintenance from time-to-time? This could introduce an interesting game mechanic that plays havoc with a trader's own plans if they don't keep up to date with the published schedule of witchspace outages (which are only available after paying a fee, of course).

Part of me just wants to see how this would affect my game. The nerd in me thinks this is an interesting idea.

And the beauty of Oolite is that no-one else needs to install this into their ooniverse if they don't wish to.

If I ever get this off the ground, I'd need some help in the art department - I'd want to replace the witchpoint beacons with a more dedicated structure where pilots could communicate to update their galaxy map with current and planned witchspace outages.
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Cholmondely »

Bugbear wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:55 am Witchspace Maintenance (that's a working title. Not sure what I'll call it).

I think it was in the opening chapter of Incursio where Galcop forces commenced destruction of witchpoint stations. I got to thinking - we have witchpoint beacons. In my headcanon they are targeted by the ship's witchpoint drive when jumping from system-to-system. So what if the reliability of these beacons was a function of the government type and planetary GDP? What if it was standard practice for planetary governments to take down their witchpoint beacon for maintenance from time-to-time? This could introduce an interesting game mechanic that plays havoc with a trader's own plans if they don't keep up to date with the published schedule of witchspace outages (which are only available after paying a fee, of course).

Part of me just wants to see how this would affect my game. The nerd in me thinks this is an interesting idea.

And the beauty of Oolite is that no-one else needs to install this into their ooniverse if they don't wish to.

If I ever get this off the ground, I'd need some help in the art department - I'd want to replace the witchpoint beacons with a more dedicated structure where pilots could communicate to update their galaxy map with current and planned witchspace outages.
Have you seen BuoyRepair? I'm no expert, but I understand that there is rather more under the skin than is apparent at first glance (it is one of Svengali's productions). And we also have several models for buoys.

Also this one (originally by Murgh):
Image

You might find that you can tweak BuoyRepair to do what you want.

Cody asked recently about the actual functioning of the Witchpoint Buoy: does it function as a marker (so if moved, as in Cdr Cheyd's oxp, the exit from the tunnel moves with it), or does it just mark the spot (this is the answer in terms of vanilla game code).
Last edited by Cholmondely on Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Switeck »

Cholmondely wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:43 pm
Switeck wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:39 pmAs for why I make OXPs...and do I have any other proof-of-concept OXPs...
I'm sorry, I must have been suffering from a senior moment and missed the significance of this one (old age, my advancing senility, the relentless death of my brain cells...)

How do you want this one handled, Switeck?

I can put up pages for each of them with the information here and in your ReadMe's. Can you still get into the wiki to edit what I do?

Or would you rather do it yourself and let me handle the links?
Everything I mentioned tends to be horribly broken and/or unfinished ...or tends to already have a wiki and/or OXZ easily downloaded from inside Oolite game.
...Or I just posted on this forum announcing where to download.

I make my OXPs hard-to-find by choice, because I'm simply too tired and too busy to deal with fussing around with maintaining wiki websites on top of everything else.
Some of these items I'm working on are not at a finished-enough state to merit a wiki page.

If you're willing to making a wiki, just put all my OXPs/OXZs on 1 page with a short mention what they do. Most are simple equipment with no promises of doing anything "useful" OR being easy-to-use!
Auto-ECM
Misjump Inducer
Quantum Drive
Variable Jump Drive
...could all be in one place.
If you're willing to do that much, you might want to put up more stable download links other than the short-lived ones I'm using now. :P

I'll try to turn the more balanced OXPs into OXZs on the Oolite in-game updater...but even that's going to really cut into my time/ability to do anything else.

I run into all kinds of problems due to the complexity I'm fighting with just trying to get anything done at all.
For instance, Cargo Contracts Mod has hit another snag -- the formulas don't work correctly. I'm at least getting numbers now, but they're obviously incorrect ones...
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Cholmondely »

Switeck wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:18 am Everything I mentioned tends to be horribly broken and/or unfinished ...or tends to already have a wiki and/or OXZ easily downloaded from inside Oolite game.
...Or I just posted on this forum announcing where to download.

I make my OXPs hard-to-find by choice, because I'm simply too tired and too busy to deal with fussing around with maintaining wiki websites on top of everything else.
Some of these items I'm working on are not at a finished-enough state to merit a wiki page.

If you're willing to making a wiki, just put all my OXPs/OXZs on 1 page with a short mention what they do. Most are simple equipment with no promises of doing anything "useful" OR being easy-to-use!
Auto-ECM
Misjump Inducer
Quantum Drive
Variable Jump Drive
...could all be in one place.
If you're willing to do that much, you might want to put up more stable download links other than the short-lived ones I'm using now. :P

I'll try to turn the more balanced OXPs into OXZs on the Oolite in-game updater...but even that's going to really cut into my time/ability to do anything else.

I run into all kinds of problems due to the complexity I'm fighting with just trying to get anything done at all.
For instance, Cargo Contracts Mod has hit another snag -- the formulas don't work correctly. I'm at least getting numbers now, but they're obviously incorrect ones...
1) If you turn the oxp's into oxz's then they can be uploaded to the wiki. I'm sure that your sites were good in their day, but now there is a barrage of advertising when one downloads... If you like, you can also put the remainder on the Expansions Manager, but that is more of a chore, and if you will be tweaking with them further, the chore becomes a bore...
2) I could just create your user:page, link them to that and then link your user:page to (for example) the Geography page, Hyperspace Drive, Galactic Hyperdriveetc

Two of your oxp's are already on the in-game Expansions Manager. See the list here (sorted by author) and your user:contributions page on the wiki

Note, that thanks to Hiran's help, those two Expansions Manager oxz's are already up on our wiki: Auto-ECM & Misjump Inducer.

You could transfer the links from the BB threads to the wiki if you wish (or ask Phkb to do it for you).

Maintenance of the wiki pages only becomes an issue if you are updating your oxz's constantly by making major reforms which the user sees (not if you are just tinkering underneath the hood).

What do you want said about yourself on your user:page? If you produce something you are happy with, I'll put it up. Any ideas for a picture you would like?

UK_Eliter ended up with this, Montana05 likes this, Murgh has built himself up to these...

The pages almost always look better with some sort of graphic - just ask Old Murgh - he's an official editor (Veteran Editor III - or Most Perfect Tutnum) for the wine pages in Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (currently involved in the battle of the bots).
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Switeck »

I am well-aware there are 2 of my OXZs/OXPs already on the in-game Expansions Manager. I put them there years ago.
One is hopelessly broken for years, but I haven't found the time/ability to fix it.
It should either be pulled from the updater or at least given a warning that it's broken...

You've already pointed out that the equipment I made is...horribly disappointing:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=281434#p281434
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=281444#p281444
...so there's no point in having multiple separate pages of drivel when people probably just want to download them.

"I'm sure that your sites were good in their day, but now there is a barrage of advertising when one downloads..."

If the download links I put up are too much of a hassle, I can delete them. Admittedly, that's why I wanted *YOU* to create download locations that weren't such a bother.

I wanted to get something out quick (but messy) on Christmas Day...I'll try to clean it up later...but that won't be today.
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Cholmondely »

Switeck wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:46 pm I am well-aware there are 2 of my OXZs/OXPs already on the in-game Expansions Manager. I put them there years ago.
One is hopelessly broken for years, but I haven't found the time/ability to fix it.
It should either be pulled from the updater or at least given a warning that it's broken...

You've already pointed out that the equipment I made is...horribly disappointing:
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=281434#p281434
http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=281444#p281444
...so there's no point in having multiple separate pages of drivel when people probably just want to download them.

"I'm sure that your sites were good in their day, but now there is a barrage of advertising when one downloads..."

If the download links I put up are too much of a hassle, I can delete them. Admittedly, that's why I wanted *YOU* to create download locations that weren't such a bother.

I wanted to get something out quick (but messy) on Christmas Day...I'll try to clean it up later...but that won't be today.
Nope. No way. They are not horribly disappointing. And the separate pages would not be drivel.

Let me be quite honest about this, Switeck. I would give my right arm to be able to do what you do. And the fact that your masterpiece is in an aspect of Oolite which has nothing to do with combat is something that I greatly respect. And the fact that the vanilla game code was changed was hardly your fault. And, as regards your other oxp's, the fact that other people have also been working in your areas of interest merely shows that what you have been working on is important. Why downgrade yourself like that? And why call them horribly disappointing? I certainly don't call them that - or think it - and I would be amazed if anybody else here does either. The people here nowadays are a jolly decent bunch of chaps, not a bunch of nit-picking nay-sayers!

I can't create the box sites for the simple reason that I don't have an e-mail address. I had to borrow one to register here. The only thing I have meaningful access to is our wiki, and it won't take oxp's - just oxz's. So if you have an address, you easily move stuff to box.com (Cody tells me that it's a doddle) or oxz them and put them on the wiki (probably safer, in terms of dear old posterity).

I can try and .oxz them if you like, and them put them up on our wiki. But I'm not great at it - I did manage to produce a couple of rip-offs of Norby's work which seem to have worked (I won't talk about my rather more numerous dismal failures...).

Why not see what Phkb recommends about your broken oxz? He has to be one of the most decent people I've had the pleasure to come into contact with.

And enjoy the festive season! That's the current command from those sitting on the Cocktail Throne of Digebiti!
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Switeck »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:51 pmWhy not see what Phkb recommends about your broken oxz? He has to be one of the most decent people I've had the pleasure to come into contact with.
The main problem with Switeck's Shipping Mod is due to the same underlying problem I have with fixing the Cargo Contracts... the change to how stations get a commodities market is how it reads in the commodities list. The old commodities list were relatively easy to convert into credit price ranges. There is no reference to the underlying formulas with the new station commodties market.

So it is correct to say I'm already PMing Phkb on the matter. He solved the NaN (Not a Number) errors I was getting...and the division by zero errors that was causing:

"So, I got your sample code to work: it appears that something is happening that is causing the Javascript interpreter to mis-interpret the variable types from the market data, resulting in the NaN issues. Wrapping each reference in parseFloat() seems to eliminate the error. "

So yeah, I was fighting the Javascript interpreter instead of Oolite's game engine. What I did should have worked...it just didn't.

1 hurdle cleared, now I have the formulas...they return credit-value numbers...they just come up with definitely incorrect number values.
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by montana05 »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:51 pm I can try and .oxz them if you like, and them put them up on our wiki. But I'm not great at it - I did manage to produce a couple of rip-offs of Norby's work which seem to have worked (I won't talk about my rather more numerous dismal failures...).
No worries, creating an OXZ from an OXP takes less than 5 min, no modifications included. In case you need help, just let me know.
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by Switeck »

montana05 wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:10 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:51 pmI can try and .oxz them if you like, and them put them up on our wiki. But I'm not great at it - I did manage to produce a couple of rip-offs of Norby's work which seem to have worked (I won't talk about my rather more numerous dismal failures...).
No worries, creating an OXZ from an OXP takes less than 5 min, no modifications included. In case you need help, just let me know.
I can create OXZs. Getting the text files and manifest.plist cleaned up is what takes me so long after I already have technically-working OXPs. And my text files are usually a mess...if I have much at all.

As for wiki pages...
I don't want all my smaller equipment OXZs scattered on multiple wiki pages.
Some of them are designed to be used together -- such as the Misjump Inducer and Variable Jump Drive.
So it makes sense for them to be available together.
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Re: Why did you write that OXP?

Post by hiran »

Smivs wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:26 pm So come on OXP-ers, let's hear how some of your OXP ideas came about, and what made you create them.
I sometimes look at what people claim to be impossible. It starts as a small thread in the background, but when after some time I cannot find a reason against I need to try that topic. At least this time I was triggered by the impossibility of Multiplayer Oolite features.

Also I had to learn that an OXP actually is limited enough it will not be able to communicate to other players - so what I have today is not an OXP but an application that talks to Oolite via the Debug Console Protocol while being in touch with other players via XMPP.

I call it the Oolite Communicator and so far it allows players to send messages and exchange commodities. Actually, even if you do not like to multiplay at all you can have it running in the background and eventually receive comms messages not only from NPCs but real players as well. And you can respond if you so wish.
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