Oolite Wiki

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cody »

Cholmondely wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:46 pmI've added a rider to the section...
Midnight Rider?
I dreamed I saw the silver spaceships flying, in the yellow haze of the sun
There were children crying and colors flying, all around the chosen ones
All in a dream, all in a dream, the loading had begun
Flying Mother Nature's silver seed to a new home
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:46 pm Hiran, I've rejigged the Oolite Equipment page to try and answer your comments. Could you have a quick decko and let me know if it's any better?
Looks better to me indeed.
I'd be able to find my way through, and some of the wisdom shared in the chat has made it's way into the wiki. Very helpful. :-)
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:51 pm I'd like to rewrite (unless someone else is desperate to!) and include the new key-commands for the F8 screen. Bung the Classic Elite content on a new page for Classic Elite.
While I know classic elite I never played it much (I did not have the game for the computer my father bought).
But I liked the gameplay, and thus now like Oolite. However games today are different from that time, and Oolite would waste a lot of it's potential if it were tied to just be an Elite clone.

Therefore I like the idea document Oolite as an own entity.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

So the code I created can read the Expansion Manager's OXP list, download the OXPs, read their manifest|equipment|shipdata and come up with a set of HTML pages that we can browse. This first draft created content takes roughly 6 MB - already zipped.

How can I best share that file with others? Pastebin only allows cut'n'paste which would not work out for a zip archive.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

hiran wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:55 am So the code I created can read the Expansion Manager's OXP list, download the OXPs, read their manifest|equipment|shipdata and come up with a set of HTML pages that we can browse. This first draft created content takes roughly 6 MB - already zipped.

How can I best share that file with others? Pastebin only allows cut'n'paste which would not work out for a zip archive.
Hiran, why don't you post say 3 on the wiki. I can then start editing them and let you know about the problems with the system from my perspective? If the worst comes to the worst, and it ends up as a mess, it will still make things a little simpler from my end.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:59 pm Hiran, why don't you post say 3 on the wiki. I can then start editing them and let you know about the problems with the system from my perspective? If the worst comes to the worst, and it ends up as a mess, it will still make things a little simpler from my end.
Sharing just three of the files would probably not show the mass of files/pages that need to be managed.
But I received some hint, so you can check out http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=275530#p275530 .....
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by Cholmondely »

hiran wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:07 pm ... check out http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=275530#p275530 .....
Oh my giddy Aunt! I managed to find an index page in the morass of material. Clicking on BlOomberg markets (3rd down in the Expansions column) the resulting page reads:
Expansion BlOomberg Markets

Varies the in-game economy by generating random events that affect commodity prices. Depends on Snoopers.

Read more... - links to wiki page
category Mechanics
author Ramirez, Svengali
tags

Equipment: No equipment
Ships: No ships.
Clicking on Extracts from the Tre Clan another 1 1/2 pages down yields:
Expansion Extracts from the Tre Clan

Adds the 'Extracts from the Tre Clan Addresses on Interplanetary Life' book to your ship's library, containing selected lectures from an experienced trader.
category Equipment
author cim
tags

Equipment: No equipment
Ships: No ships.


Now, the current version of BlOomberg Markets depends on GNN.oxz, the successor to Snoopers.oxz. And Extracts from the Tre Clan similarly requires the Ship's Library.oxz.

In this light these entries for Extracts are confusing: category Equipment combined with Equipment: No equipment

All this may help a little (if it creates a new wiki page and if the new page is tagged as a mechanics .oxp or equipment .oxp), but I'm unsure it helps all that much. Dumping the read me contents on the new page (for later editing) would help a bit more.

I only clicked on these two (because I know a bit about them).

What do you think?
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Cholmondely wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:47 pm Oh my giddy Aunt! I managed to find an index page in the morass of material.
I did not tell anyone that opening *any* of the files reveals a link in the upper left corner "Back to index", which means you would not have had to search if you just knew. But point taken, that is not very intuitive. It does not cost me much to move all files down one folder so the index is more evident.
Cholmondely wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:47 pm Now, the current version of BlOomberg Markets depends on GNN.oxz, the successor to Snoopers.oxz. And Extracts from the Tre Clan similarly requires the Ship's Library.oxz.

In this light these entries for Extracts are confusing: category Equipment combined with Equipment: No equipment
Please do not shoot the messenger. I just created a tool to extract information from the OXPs. The one you chose contains the category 'equipment' in it's manifest, but then the equipment.plist file either does not exist or is empty. One could argue whether such OXPs should exist at all, but as a matter of fact this one does.
Cholmondely wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:47 pmAll this may help a little (if it creates a new wiki page and if the new page is tagged as a mechanics .oxp or equipment .oxp), but I'm unsure it helps all that much. Dumping the read me contents on the new page (for later editing) would help a bit more.
This is the first draft of automatically generated pages. I am thinking of dumping the readme information as well - but there seems no documented standard where to put documentation (see http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_howto or in http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_standards).
This results in different OXPs coming with different files and different file formats that contain readme information. So this is a topic on it's own. Up until now I just used the short description and the information_url from the manifest.
Cholmondely wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:47 pmI only clicked on these two (because I know a bit about them).

What do you think?
My first thought? Thank you for the feedback! :-)

Well, it is a start. It also shows that until now there was very little management or quality control applied on the OXP metadata.
Which may change over time: If the code I create is well accepted it can also perform various checks and come up with notifications or reports. But someone would have to followup with the expansion authors.

I hope others would also chime in and share their thoughts. Until then I'll try to find a solution for readme files.
Last edited by hiran on Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

To give a better overview of the readme.txt challenge: Have a look at these creative names. And it is just an excerpt of the full list.
I will dump the content of these files into the expansion overview, however we still lack good descriptions for ships or equipment. No guarantees for the guys providing RTF though...

At least for each equipment there is a page that refers to the expansion, so users will have a chance to find something after all.


http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/8/85/Trident_Down_2.5.2.oxz!Trident Down readme.rtf
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/9/95/Oolite.oxp.Thargoid.Armoury.oxz!Readme & License.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/7/72/BlOomberg_Markets_2.7.oxz!BlOomberg Markets v2.6.2 Readme.rtf
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/4/48/Oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.GalTech_cylon_raider_Fix.OXZ!read_me.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/e/e4/CommsLogMFD.oxz!readme.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/6/62/Oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.Far_Arm_Ships.OXZ!Far Arm ships 3.0.1 ReadMe.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/0/05/Rescue_stations_1.5.4.oxz!rescue_stations_readme_and_licence.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/4/4d/Auto_Eject_1.2.oxz!readMe.rtf
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/0/0e/Generation_Ships.oxz!readme.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/b/bd/AssassinsGuild-1.3.3.oxz!readme.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/b/bd/AssassinsGuild-1.3.3.oxz!v1.3.3 readme.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/4/47/Delightful_Docking_v1.1.oxz!Music/Blue Danube readme.rtf
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/4/47/Delightful_Docking_v1.1.oxz!readme.rtf
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/5/5a/AutoCrosshairs_1.1.1.oxz!Auto Crosshairs READ ME.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/2/2b/AutoPrimeEquipment.oxz!readme.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/7/76/Liners_v1.7.0.oxz!readme.rtf
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/e/e2/Santa_1.2.oxz!readme.txt
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Now there is an update available at https://app.box.com/s/6t0u4dj0y5g4adjo4ji6ggn06xnyvpa2
Some of the changes mentioned above are already in. Comments welcome. :-)
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by montana05 »

hiran wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:49 pm
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/4/48/Oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.GalTech_cylon_raider_Fix.OXZ!read_me.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/6/62/Oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.Far_Arm_Ships.OXZ!Far Arm ships 3.0.1 ReadMe.txt
Cylon Raider Fix is not a real OXP, the readme.txt is merely a change log. I am still not sure if I should open wiki pages for the fixes, they are only there because of license problems.

Far Ams actually got a wiki page, including all ships : http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Far_Arm_ships, as you can see its there called Far Arm.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

montana05 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:29 pm
hiran wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:49 pm
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/4/48/Oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.GalTech_cylon_raider_Fix.OXZ!read_me.txt
http://wiki.alioth.net/img_auth.php/6/62/Oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.Far_Arm_Ships.OXZ!Far Arm ships 3.0.1 ReadMe.txt
Cylon Raider Fix is not a real OXP, the readme.txt is merely a change log. I am still not sure if I should open wiki pages for the fixes, they are only there because of license problems.

Far Ams actually got a wiki page, including all ships : http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Far_Arm_ships, as you can see its there called Far Arm.
It seems you are (at least sometimes) an OXP developer. Where would you prefer to put documentation for OXPs? What could be the favourite format?
Somehow I believe it makes sense to package the documentation within the OXP, and then to automatically distribute it to wherever it pleases. This could be the wiki, a ship's manual or whatever. But the flow of information would be defined.

Now as you say some OXP's are no real OXPs (I am not sure if I understand that), and some readme files are not meant to be read (why are they called readme then?), wouldn't that cry for a standard where to place documentation inside an OXP?
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by montana05 »

hiran wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:31 pm It seems you are (at least sometimes) an OXP developer.
All my own OXP's are currently on hold, for the past months I just take the work of others, update it for the latest Oolite release and upload them to the manager.
hiran wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:31 pm some OXP's are no real OXPs (I am not sure if I understand that)
Technically it is an OXP but standalone these packages do nothing. Most of these fixes are overriding existing work, usually because the license restricts modifying the original code.
hiran wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:31 pm and some readme files are not meant to be read
It's just my personal concept, there is no standard for it. My readme.txt usually only contain a quick overview and the change-log. It is unlikely that a plain user will read it so the info's there are mainly for developers. The wiki page, on the other hand, most of the time includes lore, pictures and a lot of details and is meant to help you to decide if you want to install this package.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by hiran »

Good point you made, @montana05. Now I believe we have to anticipate different constellations. Right now I would not know how to distinguish them by looking at an OXP:
  • An OXP may require another one. Depending on the reason we probably want to treat only the new one or both OXPs as an 'official' one.
    In the case you mentioned your OXP contains a fix for the otherwise incompatible but also unmodifyable OXP. Here we probably only want to publish the wrapper and shadow the original one
  • In other cases, where one OXP bases or accomplishes another one we want to publish both.
  • Yet other cases, where OXPs peacefully coexist and all of them get equally published
Then there is different documentation for different target groups and use cases:
  • Developer Documentation (may help understand, extend and maintain the OXP)
  • Teaser (pre-installation: may help users to decide whether they want this OXP installed)
  • Manual (post-installation: may help users actually use OXP, the ships, planets, equipment etc.)
  • Changelog
  • Legal notes (that might come in addition to the license mentioned in the manifest)
So far I have seen three formats of providing documentation:
  • Plain ASCII files:
    easy to maintain but does not allow any markup, not to talk about including graphics. So it may be a bit boring to read just text.
  • RTF files
    allows markup but requires the files to be made accessible to a suitable reader. I believe in practice noone extracts an OXP just to scan for RTFs...
  • Wiki Entries
    the most versatile, most accessible and I believe therefore most used one. But it resides outside the OXP and thus follows a different lifecycle
Would it not make sense to define a structure that does not require documentation but shows where to place it? Later, when submitting an OXP to be registered in the Expansion Manager some minimum quality checks could be applied.
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Re: Oolite Wiki

Post by montana05 »

hiran wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:10 am Would it not make sense to define a structure that does not require documentation but shows where to place it? Later, when submitting an OXP to be registered in the Expansion Manager some minimum quality checks could be applied.
Here is a typical manifest.plist:


{
"identifier" = "oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.SIRF";
"required_oolite_version" = "1.88";
"title" = "S.I.R.F.";
"version" = "2.61";
"author" = "milinks, tinker, Montana05";
"category" = "Dockables";
"description" = "System Independent Repair Facilities could be found in medium to high Tech level systems with reasonably safe governments. They provide alternative shipyards and trading. This package includes 3 NPC ships as well, for more details please check the wiki page.";
"information_url" = "http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/S.I.R.F.";
"license" = "CC BY-NC-SA 4.0";
"tags" = ( "station", "ships" );
"requires_oxps" =
(
{
"identifier" = "oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.resource_pack_01";
"version" = "0.53";
"description" = "Adds effects, additional cargo and commodities plus new escape pods required by this OXP.";
}
);
"conflict_oxps" =
(
{
"identifier" = "oolite.oxp.zzz.Montana05.SIRF_compact";
"version" = "1.00";
"description" = "This original version and the simplified version are using the same keys and extensions and therefore can't coexist.";
}
);
}


"information_url" = already got a pointer to where additional information are offered, usually wiki
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