Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Off topic discussion zone.

Moderators: winston, another_commander, Cody

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 13759
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Cody » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 pm

They want/need mission ideas? Crikey!
Their dreams a tattered sail in the wind

User avatar
Gimi
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Gimi » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:32 pm

Cody wrote:They want/need mission ideas? Crikey!
I think that is a good thing. They probably have quite a few ideas already, but a brain storming session by the community can only help. No guarantee any one idea makes it into the final game of course.
"A brilliant game of blasting and trading... Truly a mega-game... The game of a lifetime."
(Gold Medal Award, Zzap!64 May 1985).

User avatar
Gimi
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Gimi » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:16 am

New topic up for discussion and comments in the DDF.

“Wind! Is that a good name?” Ship Names in Elite: Dangerous
Sandro Sammarco, Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous wrote:Hello you lovely backers!

Apologies for the delay – here’s the next DDF topic up for discussion, and it’s a nice little diversion: ship names!

We want them to mean something. In all the best adventure stories, ships are often characters in their own right, with suitably appropriate names. In addition, I feel that by allowing ships to be named more weight is added to player attachment and immersion.

Following on from this, I’m quite taken with the idea that we could perhaps find some form of mechanical benefits and penalties that could be applied. Perhaps something like this:

  • A ship can be given a name by a commander
    • A ship name can only be registered at a reputable space dock
    • There is a fee to register the name
    • Names are not unique
    • Ship names can be changed using the same procedure
  • Swear words detected in the name will be considered a crime in some of the more puritan systems (resulting in a crime)
  • As long as the ship is not destroyed, a named ship earns a tithe of reputation the commander earns
    • This additional reputation is applied to the commander whilst he/she is piloting the ship (up to a cap – though the ship can keep earning more reputation)
    • News feed bulletins will reference named ships with enough reputation, highlighting accomplishments achieved by them
    • Some missions and events may require minimum/maximum thresholds to trigger
  • When a named ship is destroyed, bonus reputation associated with it is lost
So, do you see merit in these rules, or are we complicating things for no good reason. Perhaps you think that just being able to have a name is enough? Or maybe you want more mechanics hooked onto it - or different ones. Maybe there's some cool rule waiting to be raised that describes how ship names could be used in nefarious ways?

Therefore, it's now time for me to open the floor to your suggestions.[/color]
"A brilliant game of blasting and trading... Truly a mega-game... The game of a lifetime."
(Gold Medal Award, Zzap!64 May 1985).

User avatar
Disembodied
Jedi Spam Assassin
Jedi Spam Assassin
Posts: 6373
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Carter's Snort

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Disembodied » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:08 am

This is interesting ... the penalties for certain ship names implies that the names will be public. I like the idea that there can be in-game penalties (and maybe opportunities) associated with names, but - because of multiplayer - this opens a host of antisocial possibilities. It's possible to be immensely offensive, at least to some people, without using anything recognisable as swearwords, e.g. a ship called "(ethnic, religious, political, sporting etc. figure/group) (performs some anatomical activity) (with some barnyard animal)". Even something like "(ethnic, religious, political, sporting etc. figure/group) 4 Eva" will get up the noses of proponents of other (ethnic, religious, political, sporting etc. figure/group)s ... making ship names public is a recipe for endless petty whining. Still, that's multiplayer.

However, all that aside, I like the idea of cultural implications for ship names, and think this could be extended beyond simple "Ooh! Sweary!" penalties for certain (and presumably remorselessly monoglot English) systems. Clients in the Empire might give some sort of positive bonus to ships with elegant, erudite and/or flamboyant names; the Federation might similarly see such things as effete, and prefer shorter, pithier ones (or just code letters and numbers, maybe). How these things could be measured, I don't know ... it's possible to measure levels of "meaning" in text using pattern recognition, but a ship name would be far too short, I think - they might just have to go by length (with some sort of basic are-they-real-words check to avoid names like "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ..." or "Shgflzirsjfksudcn Sgorllercjsdf").

User avatar
Wolfwood
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:53 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Wolfwood » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:34 am

I actually like the idea of named ships garnering fame as great deeds are performed with them. I'd hope that this means that the very famous ships will remain in the game even if the original owner decides to sell them - perhaps getting a better price for the ship. The new owner who buys the ship (from the original owner or from a shipyard) would then benefit from the fame as well and continue growing it.

People might even learn to know particular ships by sight and this would make simply stealing a very famous ship less attractive (you are caught more easily).
Author of Tales from the Frontier - official Elite 4 anthology.
Author of Marcan Rayger adventures - unofficial fan-fic novellas set in the Frontier universe.

User avatar
DaddyHoggy
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 8501
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:43 pm
Location: Newbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by DaddyHoggy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:42 am

Could you find a ship with a Terrific* reputation and rename your ship after it? In the same way some snakes/lizards/insects mimic the markings of more deadly of their own kind? Of course a double edged sword if a Bounty Hunter takes an interest in you...


*As in "instils terror"
Selezen wrote:Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
Oolite Life is now revealed here

User avatar
Disembodied
Jedi Spam Assassin
Jedi Spam Assassin
Posts: 6373
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Carter's Snort

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Disembodied » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:11 pm

DaddyHoggy wrote:Could you find a ship with a Terrific* reputation and rename your ship after it? In the same way some snakes/lizards/insects mimic the markings of more deadly of their own kind? Of course a double edged sword if a Bounty Hunter takes an interest in you...


*As in "instils terror"
Which might result in the original coming after you, as with Homer Simpson and the "Hell's Satans" episode ... :twisted:

User avatar
Gimi
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Gimi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:03 am

New mission related topic up for discussion in the DDF.

"Of course you'll look mean! You'll look really scary" - Missions in Elite: Dangerous
Sandro Sammarco, Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous wrote:Hello again, Mega-backers!

Time for another (mildly belated) missions topic. This time around, we're interested in looking at ideas for criminal related missions and events.

So, what we're interested in are just what are the kinds of tasks that criminal organisations need space pilots to complete, what are the kinds of nefarious activities that pilot's might run into, who are the kind of people and organisations involved and what kind of rewards and penalties might pilots expect to face?

Repeated for ease of use and clarity are the guidelines we put up for the first mission topic regarding missions and events:

They can be single events or multipart, as well as partial (we don't want you to do our job for us, what we want from you guys is some more fun ideas). It's fine to have multiple outcomes, too, though it's worth considering how the game might measure results. Feel free to talk about mission rewards as well, as well as what kind of information (true or false) the player might receive.

Obviously the simpler the ideas are the better, but the primary purpose of this thread is to try and generate interesting avenues for us to explore, expand on and codify whether it's a description about an NPC reaction or a subtext to a briefing), so really, the most important thing is imagination and entertainment potential!

Feel free to be as precise or woolly as you want, and don't feel locked in by whatever you know (or don't) about Elite cannon or lore. The fact is, if we see something we thing could be really cool, we can always work out how to use it!

For the purposes of clarity, if might want to give a one line title like: "deep space smuggler offer" but don't worry if nothing comes to mind.

We've really enjoyed the ideas that came up in the first mission DDF topic, and look forward to more in this one!
"A brilliant game of blasting and trading... Truly a mega-game... The game of a lifetime."
(Gold Medal Award, Zzap!64 May 1985).

User avatar
Gimi
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Gimi » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:45 pm

Revised Sip Naming proposal currently being discussed.

"It is unsinkable. God himself could not sink this ship." Revised Ship Naming
Dan Davies, Designer- Elite: Dangerous wrote:Hello all,
This is the revised Ship Naming proposal taking into consideration the feedback we have recieved, keep it rollling!

Ship Naming
  • A ship can be given a name by a commander
    • A ship name can only be registered at a reputable space dock
    • There is a fee to register the name
    • Names are not unique
      • Although ships have unique registration numbers that can be shown
    • Ship names can be changed using the same procedure
  • By default a profanity filter is applied to all ship names (separate from chat filters) “starring” swear words out
    • More words can be manually entered into the filter if desired by players
    • Players can turn the filter off if they desire
    • Further filtering can be applied on a ship by ship basis (regardless of whether the profanity filter is on or off) to hide offending ship names from the player resulting in their registration only being displayed from then on
    • Additionally a player can report another ships name if it is offensive and have the option to hide it afterwards
      • Players with multiple reports against their ships name will be flagged for review and may result in name removal and bonus reset
  • As long as the ship is not destroyed, a named ship earns a bonus to a commander’s reputation over time
    • This additional bonus is applied to the commander’s reputation values globally whilst he/she is piloting the ship
      • Both positive and negative reputations are affected (i.e. the bonus exaggerates the reputation of the commander)
    • News feed bulletins will reference named ships with high bonuses to reputation, highlighting accomplishments achieved by them
      • Pilot names and unique registration numbers can also be used to further identify ships if need be
    • Some missions and events may require minimum/maximum bonus thresholds to trigger
    • Bonuses are capped to a small fixed percentage so as to not completely skew a commander’s reputation values
      • This bonus is never shown to the player
    • Changing the name of a ship resets the cumulative bonus to zero
  • When a ship is destroyed it loses some of its built up bonus when replaced
    • Reputation bonuses can never be less than 0%
  • There is no player driven second-hand ship trading planned for initial release
    • Second hand ships are created by the game and come with randomly generated names that the player can either keep or pay the fee to change as above
    • New ships come with no such name preregistered
    • Second hand ships have no bonus applied
[/color]
"A brilliant game of blasting and trading... Truly a mega-game... The game of a lifetime."
(Gold Medal Award, Zzap!64 May 1985).

User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 13759
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: Corke's Drift
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Cody » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:00 pm

Thanks, Gimi...
News feed bulletins will reference named ships with high bonuses to reputation, highlighting accomplishments achieved by them
... one wonders if that would apply to the named ship of a solo-online player?
Their dreams a tattered sail in the wind

User avatar
Gimi
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Gimi » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:37 pm

Cody wrote:Thanks, Gimi...
News feed bulletins will reference named ships with high bonuses to reputation, highlighting accomplishments achieved by them
... one wonders if that would apply to the named ship of a solo-online player?
I suspect not. If you play connected single player with the persistent universe maybe.
"A brilliant game of blasting and trading... Truly a mega-game... The game of a lifetime."
(Gold Medal Award, Zzap!64 May 1985).

User avatar
Gimi
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Gimi » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:37 pm

Next topic up in the DDF

"My trust in him is marrow deep!" Persistant Characters in Elite: Dangerous
Tom Kewell, Designer- Elite: Dangerous wrote:Hi DDFers,

This weeks topic discusses persistant NPC characters. Many characters in the Elite: Dangerous universe are public figures, and will be consistent with all players (e.g. the Emperor will be the same character in everyone's game). Many characters players will encounter are generated as part of a players encounters and missions. Where possible the game will attempt to re-use NPC characters where appropriate, and share characters between connected players, leading to persistent NPCs with developing stories.

Goals
  • Provide consistent characters for player’s to interact with
  • Provide a sense of history for the galaxy
  • Provide the opportunity for casual encounters to become longer running threads
Character Tiers
Character tiers are used to identify the characters, their significance and permanence in the game world.

Tier 1 Characters
Tier 1 characters are major characters within the game world, for example Planetary Presidents, Major Corporation CEO’s and top ranking crime bosses. Typically the player will interact with tier 2 characters associated with the tier 1 character rather than directly with the tier 1 character.

There is a global list of tier 1 characters.

They are identified by the following characteristics:
  • Players do not interact with these characters directly.
  • The character is common to all online players.
  • The character is created via an in-game invent – typically manually.
  • The character can only be killed by an in-game event.
  • A tier 2 character can be promoted to tier 1, but only by an event.
Tier 1 Character Examples
  • Faction leaders
  • Regional persons of note
  • Engineering specialists (enhanced weapons and modules)
  • Station based characters such as traders
  • Characters providing missions
Tier 2 Characters
Tier 2 characters are characters that persist for players, but can be interacted with directly. They will usually be specific to the player, rather than across all players.

There is a per player list of tier 2 characters. There is an upper limit (TBD) of how many tier 2 characters can be tracked per player.

They are identified by the following characteristics:
  • Players can interact with the character directly.
  • Character can be killed by players or by events
  • Character can be created via an event, by the game or promoted from tier 3
  • Characters can issue missions
Tier 2 Character Examples
  • Faction leader underlings that the player deals directly with
  • Mission targets
  • Mission providers
  • Pilots of NPC vessels that the player has previously interacted with
Tier 3 Characters
Tier 3 characters are transient characters that are created when traffic is generated, these are typically pilots for NPC ships. Tier 3 character s are randomly generated from a global pool as needed.

If the player interacts with a tier 3 character then the character may be promoted to a tier 2 so they can be encountered again.

They are identified by the following characteristics:
  • They are not persistent
  • They can be promoted to tier 2 (and thus become persistent)
  • They are randomly created according to the required archetype
Tier 3 Character Examples
  • Pilots for generated traffic
  • Passengers
Newsfeeds
Characters (particularly tier 1 types) can be used as named people in news items.

Required Data
Each persistent character has two sets of data:
  1. Core information
  2. Character log
Core Information
The core information defines the character and how they interact with the world and the players. The required data includes:
  • Name
  • Archetype – this is used to manage events the character is attached to. It also defines what missions or behaviour the character has.
  • Location – this is where the character is currently based.
Character Log
Like players the character’s (tiers 1 and 2) generate an event log to track their history. There will be a separate design discussion on the player’s log, but for the characters the following information needs to be recorded for each entry:
  • Timestamp
  • Character
  • Event type
  • Other parties
Discussion Points
How far should generated characters be shared. With friends, with the general public, with those in your current session etc.?
How long should an NPC be remembered. If a character isn't used within 3 months, should it be assumed that the player will have forgotten about them, and won't benefit from a character appearing saying "remember me?"
Should we limit how galactically important NPCs generated by player events can ultimately become[/color]
"A brilliant game of blasting and trading... Truly a mega-game... The game of a lifetime."
(Gold Medal Award, Zzap!64 May 1985).

Astrobe
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Astrobe » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:56 pm

I think the multi-player mode creates a brand new role.

When it comes to small scale PvP team battles, what happens in other games is that players go to teamspeak, mumble or skype in order to coordinate their actions. Among them, sometimes one player is the informal leader of the team that tells/suggests/advices others what to do. In larger battles, it is simply not possible. The "Tactician" role meets this need.

The Tactician's role is to centralize and analyse battle information. He then broadcast orders to other players in order to help them to win. In order to do this he needs special equipment, that provides him with the detailed status of his teammates: energy left, shield levels, damages, missiles, etc. He also has an advanced radar connected to his teammate's radars, in order to collect information on the enemy ships status.

Obviously one has to be focused only on these tasks in order to perform well, so the Tactician doesn't directly engage the enemy. His ship must be relatively close to the battlefield in order for his hyperradar to work, but not too close because he is naturally weak. Plus, if the enemy team destroys his ship in would be a major tactical advantage.

How the tactician makes a living of his job? One possibility is that other players just hire him on a battle/mission basis. It is hoped that good tacticians get a good reputation and will be able to charge higher. Another option is that the tactician can mark targets on his hyperadar, and if his teammates kill the target within a certain time-out, he gets a small part of the reward for the kill.

User avatar
Smivs
Retired Assassin
Retired Assassin
Posts: 8408
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:31 am
Location: Disunited Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Smivs » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:33 pm

Hi Astrobe, Welcome to the friendliest board this side of Riedquat. :)
Astrobe wrote:...what happens in other games is that players go to teamspeak, mumble or skype in order to coordinate their actions.
Ha, with the fact that all these services are now routinely monitored by NSA and any number of other 'spooks' agencies, I wonder how many innocent gamers are already being targeted by CIA, FBI, MI5 etc due to the nature and content of the conversations :lol:
Commander Smivs, the friendliest Gourd this side of Riedquat.

Astrobe
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

Post by Astrobe » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:36 pm

Smivs wrote:Hi Astrobe, Welcome to the friendliest board this side of Riedquat. :)
Oh, hi. Sorry I spent a couple hour reading this thread and others before posting, so I felt kinda like I was already in. This board is nice and friendly indeed, that's one of the two reasons I registered (the other being, that someone made a reference to Dr. Who :lol: ).
Smivs wrote:Ha, with the fact that all these services are now routinely monitored by NSA and any number of other 'spooks' agencies, I wonder how many innocent gamers are already being targeted by CIA, FBI, MI5 etc due to the nature and content of the conversations :lol:
Well with the crappy and/or badly setup hardware people usually have, they sometimes hardly can understand each other. Contrary to email, boards, and messaging, this channel is sort of encrypted by default :wink:.

Post Reply