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Should the UK leave the EU?
Yes 29%  29%  [ 10 ]
No 60%  60%  [ 21 ]
Don't know 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Don't care 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nothing to do with me, mate! 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Total votes: 35
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:27 pm 
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Well, the time to decide approaches and the statistics (ie lies), bias, bigotry, ignorance and obfuscation are picking up pace. What do you good Citizens of the Ooniverse think?
Just to get the ball rolling, I intend to vote 'Remain in' (ie to stay in Europe). Why? Simple really.
While the EU is clearly imperfect in all sorts of ways, membership gives the UK an influence and benefits that would not be possible as a stand-alone country. Nobody can really predict the consequences of leaving, but the transition out would obviously involve many years and millions of pounds just to re-negotiate trade deals with both Europe and the rest of the World. The impact on areas such as security is not clear at all other than we know what we would lose in terms of international policing etc.
Immigration would not be impacted in any meaningful way - we already have full control over our borders and any deal with the EU post Brexit would involve agreeing to 'Free Movement' principles. We would not gain any benefit in terms of more freedom where products, goods and services are concerned as we sell most of our output to Europe, so these things would still have to comply with EU legislation.
But my main reason for thinking we should stay in is the protection the EU offers us against our own Government. We currently enjoy perhaps the best Employment, Health and Safety and Human Rights laws anywhere in thee World, and this would be seriously jeopardised if we left the EU.

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Last edited by Smivs on Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:50 pm 
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I had considered starting such a thread, but contented myself with a comment in the QotW thread. It's an emotive subject, and I suspect the result will be close - but I'll be voting for leaving. I expect I'll be in the minority here though. I was travelling abroad back in '75 so was unable to vote in the referendum on the Common Market (as it was sold to us), but it would've made no difference. I'd best stop there, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Quote:
I was travelling abroad back in '75 so was unable to vote in the referendum on the Common Market (as it was sold to us)...
I was here and did vote (yes), but as you imply the Common Market then and the EU today are very different beasts indeed. While intending to vote Yes this time round as well I do share many concerns about the direction Europe could go. I personally do not favour closer political union - a United States of Europe is not something I would like to see - and also feel that Defence and Foreign Policy should remain the responsibility of the member states. The Euro is also a non-starter for me, and the problems of open borders (Schengen) are all to obvious at the moment. Fortunately, as more countries join the EU the greater diversity of views and cultures should ensure that this kind of homogenisation will not happen.

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:25 pm 
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I guess Brexit would lead to Scotland leaving the UK, which may influence some voters - but I figure Scotland will leave the UK sooner or later anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:10 am 
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Unsurprisingly, this poll has a pretty low turnout!

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:22 am 
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<chuckles> Yeah, I wonder if the real thing will be so ignored?

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:41 am 
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I'd expect the usual 60-odd percent turnout - but which side would benefit from a low turnout?

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:38 pm 
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London has a lot of European centrals of international companies, you know. All of these would move away, taking the jobs and economical power with them. They are already doing it just because of the possible Brexit.
Quote:
I guess Brexit would lead to Scotland leaving the UK, which may influence some voters - but I figure Scotland will leave the UK sooner or later anyway.
That is the Scoxit then ? :P There's no reason to assume they will without Brexit.

I'm not allowed to vote however.

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:44 am 
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I'd say yes for most of the reasons this guy gave 2 years ago:

https://translate.google.fr/translate?h ... _3232.html

I hope the automatic translation doesn't alter the meaning too much.

That's selfish reasons though. I also believe it's delusional for the UK to think it would be better out of the EU. That's why the intent of the article is to encourage UK to be less selfish, invest itself more in the EU, and stop cheating on us with the US. Seriously guys, leave the Five Eyes and join the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:04 pm 
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A friend, who I've known for twenty-five years, is vehemently pro-Brexit - too many immigrants etc.
His parents were Italian - poor economic migrants who fled post-war Italy. It's a strange old world.

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Quote:
A friend, who I've known for twenty-five years, is vehemently pro-Brexit - too many immigrants etc.
His parents were Italian - poor economic migrants who fled post-war Italy. It's a strange old world.
Everyone in my family is descended from 19th and early 20th century refugees who were fleeing the Tsar and other problems. I hear this a lot from some of them...

I've voted for staying, because while I think the economic side of it all is a bit iffy, we haven't actually been at war with Germany or France since the late 1940s, which I think may not be unrelated. Also because I rather like being free to travel over a fairly large area without having to go through endless customs and immigration formalities, sell stuff in Europe without bothering to fill in customs declarations, etc. etc.


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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:15 pm 
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Seriously guys, leave the Five Eyes and join the EU.
That. It's farcical to see pommies carrying on about "leaving" something they've never participated in anyway. OTOH, sabotaging the euro by insisting on keeping the pound should have been the point where the Europeans threw you out. But they didn't. Its hard to respect people so lacking in any self-respect.

Here's my three-point prescription to save your civilization:-

Forcibly expropriate the wealth of the 1%ers. If the rich resist, kill them.

Invite HM QEII to abdicate. Invite her imbecile son to do the same. Make it plain to King William he's only probationary.

Purge the institutions of Fabians. Prioritize purging the BBC, CoE & universities.

As for you continental types, why the hell aren't Merkel and Hollande hanging from light poles, Mussolini-style? What's wrong with you people?


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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:12 pm 
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I'd say you must be trolling, if you didn't seem to be a respected forum member.
Quote:
OTOH, sabotaging the euro by insisting on keeping the pound should have been the point where the Europeans threw you out.
There is a large number of EU members not participating in the Euro, some of them by referendum, e.g. Denmark. Given the economical development in Greece and some other problematic Euro states, it's certainly a mistake that these have become Euro group members at all.
Australia has its own business, you are part of the Five Eyes too.

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:20 pm 
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I'd say you must be trolling, if you didn't seem to be a respected forum member.
<Chuckles>

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 Post subject: Re: EU referendum
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:34 am 
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Who dealt this mess, anyway? Yeah, it's an old card player's term
But sometimes you can use the old switcheroo and it can be applied to frontal politics
What I mean is... who was it that set up a system, supposedly democratic system
Where you end up always voting for the lesser of two evils?
I mean, was George Washington the lesser of two evils? Sometimes I wonder
You got some guy that says "For God's sake, we've got to stop having violence in this country!"
While he's spending 16,000 dollars a second... snuffin' gooks!

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