Fuel Scooping

An area for discussing new ideas and additions to Oolite.

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Cody
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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Cody » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:38 am

I'm also thinking that it wouldn't be an instantaneous transfer - 0.1ly per 3 secs or something like that, with a chance of damage on each iteration.
<nods>
phkb wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:26 am
And an auto-eject if an escape pod is fitted? Oh yeah.
Sounds good - gotta balance that exploit somehow!

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by CmdrGumbo » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:43 am

phkb wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:18 am
Cody wrote:wouldn't there be some risk involved?
So you run the risk of equipment damage during the transfer? That would certainly be worth considering.

I'm also thinking that it wouldn't be an instantaneous transfer - 0.1ly per 3 secs or something like that, with a chance of damage on each iteration.
Wouldn't that be in contradiction to the available fuel-scoop mechanism, since we can already scoop energy off the sun and directly use it as fuel without a delay. Why should there be any difference with fuel that is just stored in additional containers? You'd just pump it from there to your main tank, similar to what the extra fuel tanks opx does.

How about limiting the amount of containers one can add to a ship (maybe depending on ship size or other factors)?

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by phkb » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:32 am

CmdrGumbo wrote: Wouldn't that be in contradiction to the available fuel-scoop mechanism
Not quite. [begin handwave] The fuel scoop takes fuel from outside the ship into the main tanks. Fuel containers are in your cargo hold. The magnetic seals on the containers are designed around a one-way transfer from the fuel scoop. Bypassing this and reversing the flow of fuel, inside a pressurised, air-filled ship, could potentially ignite the fuel with disastrous consequences.[end handwave]

Well, it has a certain ring of plausibility anyway. If you squint.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by CmdrGumbo » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:06 am

phkb wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:32 am
CmdrGumbo wrote: Wouldn't that be in contradiction to the available fuel-scoop mechanism
Not quite. [begin handwave] The fuel scoop takes fuel from outside the ship into the main tanks. Fuel containers are in your cargo hold. The magnetic seals on the containers are designed around a one-way transfer from the fuel scoop. Bypassing this and reversing the flow of fuel, inside a pressurised, air-filled ship, could potentially ignite the fuel with disastrous consequences.[end handwave]

Well, it has a certain ring of plausibility anyway. If you squint.
Well you can, of course, always construct a case that makes it sound reasonable. I still say it's a contradiction, but of course I also see the need to keep things in balance.

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Day » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:06 pm

I hadn't read the full thread. Now I have :mrgreen:

Fuel scooping.
Do we have the information of how quirium is produced? If not, probably through industrial fuel scooping.

We could have industrial fuel scooping installations :-)
And the player could interoperate with them.

Solar storms
I would install an oxp which makes fuel more scarce, or unavailable depending on solar storms.

It might show a map of the systems with solar storms ^^

Uninhabited junction systems
Highly unlikely, as it is mandatory on the trade route, and strategic for military enforcement.

sunskimming required to activate a galactic hyperdrive
I like this one!!

cargo value drops upon each station docking
Would not install as it breaks the immersion for me. Value drop should depend on time, I do not see any way that it depends on station docking :-/

remove fuel from all galcop/oxp stations
Ah. It came from here. Thanks again phkb :wink:

Think of the new jameson who hasnt got enough money for a scoop, who now has all kinds of extra hassle just to be able to get to another system and sell his tiny collection of wares.
Brick. Oolite. Game. Hard. Adventure.
Now, they may not install those oxps. :mrgreen:

The cost of fuel could be measured in credits/kg instead of credits/ly, then a big ship must buy even 1000 times more kg to get 7 ly fuel.
I would install this oxp :)

Also, iirc Diplomacy OXP currently runs their galacto-political actions when you're in a station, so I don't know if they've YET implemented dramatic market changes due to active fighting, but when (probably) they do, and you're rushing to get your very-valuable cargo of guns (or food. or computers. or medicine. Probably not luxuries, though.) to market at one (or both) of those system before the conflict ends, that's another reason to sun-skim.
I've not yet implemented market changes due to wars. I'm currently designing the conditions to be willing to launch an attack, to finance others to attack, etc, and explore the idea of having the economy size varying depending on the state of wars, and battles result. This might need a dedicated economy engine. I don't see why prices wouldn't vary depending on war, it is an extremely good idea, thank you :wink:

Maybe you could head for the sun with a chance to get some of your cheaper systems functioning again
:shock: :shock: :shock: As an electronics engineer, I'm baffled.
The only way I would understand this is... You have an extremely superprepared ship, with every system being monitored and fitted with backuped reparation systems, so that the reparation systems may work on each other. Yet it needs so much energy, not coming from the internal stock (as the repair could need it stopped), that the only way to operate it is in a solar corona.
That ship would be extremely expensive, and may not be repaired in-station. The usual mecano would probably break it rather than fix it.

Volatile stuff, is quirium - wouldn't there be some risk involved?
Right.
So you run the risk of equipment damage during the transfer?
:shock: A sun-skimmer would not sun-skim if they risked any equipment. But the sun-skimming equipment? Well, that's interesting.
The more expensive the equipment, the less risks :mrgreen:

Fantastic thread!!!

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Astrobe » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:33 pm

I didn't play the OXP yet, but I think I'd try something like:

1) normal fuel at stations, however it is more expansive because of Docking fees OXP (plus, traffic jam).
2) "high octane" fuel at fuel stations. It has a better injector burning rate, so you're more secure after a long jump that leaves only 0.5LY in your tank. This super fuel is too dangerous to store at stations (needs high gravity for mass storage - I think fast-spinning Kyoto habitat stations would be perfect in this role).
3) Free fuel by sun skimming, and the fuel left in the pipes after skimming gives an additional 1LY of fuel (not usable for jumps) (to be done).

Point 2) could be further enhanced by requiring compatible injectors, and perhaps skimmed fuel could have a slightly worse burn rate (because it's not processed at all) - so we'd have 3 grades of fuel.
Then one could make it so that jumps >5LY require grade 2 (station) fuel and jumps >6LY require super fuel (which would provide a good and predictable reason for their presence in a system).

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by another_commander » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:28 am

FuelTweaks OXP release post split to new topic in Expansion Pack as per phkb's request: http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18947

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by phkb » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:19 am

another_commander wrote: FuelTweaks OXP release post split to new topic in Expansion Pack
Thanks a_c!

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Re: Fuel Scooping

Post by Hajimoto » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:33 pm

another_commander wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:28 am
FuelTweaks OXP release post split to new topic in Expansion Pack as per phkb's request: http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18947
Thanks a lot!

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