Oolite Bulletins

For information and discussion about Oolite.
It is currently Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:37 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:19 pm 
Offline
Mostly Harmless
Mostly Harmless

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:57 pm
Posts: 3
This suggestion is inspired by a TV report about eagles I watched a few months ago. Eagles have a special feature in their eyes: the center of their vision field has a telephoto lens, so they have a split focal width. I don't remember if this is true for all species of eagles or just some. But anyhow, it is a real earth life thing.

For oolite, I suggest the crosshair area to be a (switchable) telephoto lens. So, it will not zoom the whole view, only the center part of it.
I think this adds more balance to the game, as pirates seem to be able to aim very exactly from long ranges, while the player can't because long range objects are just too small.
I've already tried the Telescope OXP, but either I did not really understand how it works, or it is not a tool for manual aming.

Not sure if this possible as OXP ...

Regards,
King Kobra


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:41 pm 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 9:53 pm
Posts: 2427
Location: Budapest, Hungary (Mainly Agricultural Democracy, TL10)
Welcome King Cobra in this forum!

Nice idea, alhough I think hard to implement. Maybe better if you use a similar tool:
- Sniper Camera System
- Sniper Sight
- Sniper Ring

_________________
OXPs by Norby


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:52 pm 
Offline
Quite Grand Sub-Admiral
Quite Grand Sub-Admiral

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:54 am
Posts: 5018
I think you will need core changes to do this as you describe, King Kobra. Apart from the OXP recommendations from Norby, the closest you can get to what you want with what we currently have available is building the game code with the setting OO_FOV_INFLIGHT_CONTROL_ENABLED set to yes in the file config.make in the source code distribution. This will activate two additional keys ("k" and "l" by default) that will enable the in-game field of view change capability. This in turn will enable you to zoom the view in and out while in flight.

If you cannot be bothered building from source but would like to try this and are on a Windows OS, let me know and I can upload a suitably modified executable for you.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:28 pm 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:35 am
Posts: 482
Location: Paris
Hello everybody,

I was the one having coded the fov feature (with heavy help from another_commander).

I play with it enabled, zooming and unzooming through joystick. It adds lots of interest to my game, these ways:
- I can zoom on a distant thing, and see it better, which is quite nice for beautiful details,
- I can unzoom to a general view, which is beautiful, and relaxing; and quite logical for the cargo pilot I am, coupled with the Telescope balls,
- I can zoom on an enemy, and target it better, which is balanced by several things:
* the way the joystick is then more sensible (think holding a telephoto lens, we see farther, but it is very sensible to your movements)
* I lose then my general view,
* I play with cannons limited to 10km, powerful but limited, so no sniping,
* I lose time to go from precise view to general view, and vice-versa.
I feel it very natural to fly that way.

It could be possible to make available the fov control to oxps.
Yet:
- it's some work,
- it might not be deemed a desirable thing,
- I don't know if there would be some interest,
- the oxps using this should not conflict.

What could we do with this? Well...
An omniscope? (170° view)
The telelens of hell? (1° view)
Scriptable zooms for scenario events? (When you come nearest than 20 km from a casino / spacebar and request boarding, a ultrazoom very quickly occurs on the building most beautiful feature, then unzoom)
... ?

============

Concerning a zoom into a small part of the screen only, I think it would imply to calculate two screens each time :-/
Yet, I wondered recently if we could do this ... for virtual reality purpose :-p ?


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:05 am 
Offline
Jedi Spam Assassin
Jedi Spam Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 5858
Location: Carter's Snort
Quote:
Concerning a zoom into a small part of the screen only, I think it would imply to calculate two screens each time :-/
Yet, I wondered recently if we could do this ... for virtual reality purpose :-p ?
That might be interesting … did you ever play TIE Fighter? It had a neat feature where the ship/station you had targeted was displayed, at a set zoomed-in size, on the player's console, showing its current orientation - you can see what I mean on this video, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB_NSpUmIUU

A similar feature would be great to have - not least because we have these great ship models and yet only rarely get a chance to look at them up close …

_________________
Oofiction: Calliope: a Captain Hesperus adventure | Stranglehold: a Captain Hesperus adventure | Local Midnight in the Vacuum Bar | A Farewell to Arms, Legs, etc.: the Blaze O'Glory Story


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:42 pm 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 9:53 pm
Posts: 2427
Location: Budapest, Hungary (Mainly Agricultural Democracy, TL10)
Telescope display the targeted ship in a ring at top center:
Image
This is not a real ship but a visualEffect which is set to follow the orientation of the target.

The problem with this way is that all objects need its own declaration in effectdata.plist and I still not added more than 500 oxp ships, a few hundred stations, etc. ;)

Since then we get an addCollisionException so theoretically possible to use real ship objects instead of effects to circumvent the plist problem. If somebody feel motivation to do it then go ahead. :)

Day's tele-FOV solution would be interesting, escpecially if the degree would be writable in js: I can imagine an autozoom feature which keep the visible size of the target within certain distances.

Calculating two screens could open new possibilities, for example a missile camera or rear-view mirror. If position and orientation is writable then anything is possible. :)

_________________
OXPs by Norby


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:50 pm 
Offline
Jedi Spam Assassin
Jedi Spam Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 5858
Location: Carter's Snort
That's an interesting effect! Something along those lines really would help to show off the ship and station models.

_________________
Oofiction: Calliope: a Captain Hesperus adventure | Stranglehold: a Captain Hesperus adventure | Local Midnight in the Vacuum Bar | A Farewell to Arms, Legs, etc.: the Blaze O'Glory Story


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:44 pm 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:35 am
Posts: 482
Location: Paris
Sorry Disembodied, just for the sake of clarity (I'm not a native english speaker), are you speaking of the Telescope oxp ?
I'm confused because you wrote "would".

This oxp is working for a long time, and I often think with gratitude to its developer.
Checking who he is... Of course it's Norby. I lost the count of Norby's oxps I use.
Thanks be to Norby ;-)

another_commander, I don't remember how much the code of the camera / point of view is linked to the ship.
Would you think it possible to add relatively easily a second calculus with the same world but a different point of view?
And, reducing the scope, with just a little horizontal difference for 3D vision (meaning exactly the same objects in the view) ?
And finally, would you know if this would impinge on the code of other projects (I think to the project of oolite resizing, and maybe there is already another virtual reality project?) ?


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:10 am 
Offline
Jedi Spam Assassin
Jedi Spam Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 5858
Location: Carter's Snort
Quote:
Sorry Disembodied, just for the sake of clarity (I'm not a native english speaker), are you speaking of the Telescope oxp ?
Sorry - I mean, the effect of having a close-up model of the currently targeted object displayed in a window somewhere on the HUD. Ship modellers spend a lot of time making beautiful and detailed ship models, and players spend a lot of time shooting at tiny versions of them, far away. I think a feature like this would make the game more visually satisfying.

_________________
Oofiction: Calliope: a Captain Hesperus adventure | Stranglehold: a Captain Hesperus adventure | Local Midnight in the Vacuum Bar | A Farewell to Arms, Legs, etc.: the Blaze O'Glory Story


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:14 am 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:19 am
Posts: 2469
Location: Finland
A HUD element showing the currently targeted object would be awesome. As Disembodied says, it would add visual appeal to the game.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:28 pm 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:35 am
Posts: 482
Location: Paris
Thank you, I understand now :-)
Yes, i agree :P


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:33 pm 
Offline
Quite Grand Sub-Admiral
Quite Grand Sub-Admiral

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:54 am
Posts: 5018
Quote:
another_commander, I don't remember how much the code of the camera / point of view is linked to the ship.
Would you think it possible to add relatively easily a second calculus with the same world but a different point of view?
And, reducing the scope, with just a little horizontal difference for 3D vision (meaning exactly the same objects in the view) ?
And finally, would you know if this would impinge on the code of other projects (I think to the project of oolite resizing, and maybe there is already another virtual reality project?) ?
The view camera may be attached to the player ship, but the camera position can be anywhere in the universe, as the 1.84 mobile external camera and external camera OXPs before that demonstrate. Rendering in two viewports in OpenGL is also possible, although I think that implementing this properly in Oolite might be trickier than it looks and might involve a relative performance impact as well. This is the opinion of someone who is not a rendering expert and it could be wrong, but that's what I gather after a somewhat quick google attempt.

If it is implemented, I can't think how it would influence directly other projects. On this subject, the another virtual reality project you are talking about is most likely the headtrack branch on github. This was an experiment that worked (quite well, actually), but was not merged into the main source due to it being quite tricky to setup and required the installation of third party software to function. Currently it conflicts with master, but I would think that it should be possible to resolve the existing conflicts relatively painlessly (it doesn't hurt being a bit optimistic every now and then) if we would want to revive it.

Also, regarding VR headsets integration, I had a look at the Oculus SDK about a year ago and it looked to me that it needed rendering to vertex buffer objects in order to work, which I don't think it is something we do in Oolite yet (I believe we are rendering directly to the screen). So, incorporating this or a similar SDK to the gane could involve some serious amount of low-level work.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:51 pm 
Offline
Mostly Harmless
Mostly Harmless

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:57 pm
Posts: 3
Hi folks, thanks for all the replies. Sorry for the delay, I was offline in between.
Quote:
As I wrote, I already tried the Telescope (and the extended telescope). As far as I understand, the Sniper Ring comes with the telescope, right ? I could not enable it as described in the Telescope wiki page, and I was massively disturbed by the masslock borders, so I sold the Telescope on the next station I docked ... Maxbe I just need some more explanation.

I'll try Sniper Camera System and/or Sniper Sight and give Telescope another try when I have a new joystick. The old one broke today :-(
BTW ... The images in the Sniper Sight thread seem to have been deleted by imageshack.
Quote:
... the closest you can get to what you want with what we currently have available is building the game code with the setting OO_FOV_INFLIGHT_CONTROL_ENABLED set to yes ...
let me know and I can upload a suitably modified executable for you.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm a Linux user :-)
I will check if I can easily build oolite on my distribution.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:20 pm 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:35 am
Posts: 482
Location: Paris
Thanks a lot for the answers :-)
Quote:
The view camera may be attached to the player ship, but the camera position can be anywhere in the universe, as the 1.84 mobile external camera and external camera OXPs before that demonstrate. Rendering in two viewports in OpenGL is also possible, although I think that implementing this properly in Oolite might be trickier than it looks and might involve a relative performance impact as well. This is the opinion of someone who is not a rendering expert and it could be wrong, but that's what I gather after a somewhat quick google attempt.
Well, I was planning on a maximum x2 performance impact, plus maybe an unknown memory impact.
Quote:
If it is implemented, I can't think how it would influence directly other projects. On this subject, the another virtual reality project you are talking about is most likely the headtrack branch on github. This was an experiment that worked (quite well, actually), but was not merged into the main source due to it being quite tricky to setup and required the installation of third party software to function. Currently it conflicts with master, but I would think that it should be possible to resolve the existing conflicts relatively painlessly (it doesn't hurt being a bit optimistic every now and then) if we would want to revive it.
Yes, it's this one. I should go and test it if it works :P
Quote:
Also, regarding VR headsets integration, I had a look at the Oculus SDK about a year ago and it looked to me that it needed rendering to vertex buffer objects in order to work, which I don't think it is something we do in Oolite yet (I believe we are rendering directly to the screen). So, incorporating this or a similar SDK to the gane could involve some serious amount of low-level work.
I wouldn't know :-|
Here I put the reference for future analysis :P
https://developer3.oculus.com/documenta ... dg-render/


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:50 pm 
Offline
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:35 am
Posts: 482
Location: Paris
Quote:
Quote:
... the closest you can get to what you want with what we currently have available is building the game code with the setting OO_FOV_INFLIGHT_CONTROL_ENABLED set to yes ...
let me know and I can upload a suitably modified executable for you.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm a Linux user :-)
I will check if I can easily build oolite on my distribution.
There's a howto in the wiki for this :)


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited