Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

An area for discussing new ideas and additions to Oolite.

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pagroove
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by pagroove »

I agree with SandJ. Please Develop this OXP as a separate oxp.

I like the original Galactic Navy very much and in my Ooniverse I find a navy that is visible with the existing Sec com setup very believable. Yes the Navy was taken by surprise by the Thargoids but the mobilized quickly (in my scenario) enough to counter. With 2048 planet one would expect that all over the eight there are many shipyards constantly crunching out ships to stay in the race with the Thargoids.

I like the large fleet battles and I've taken part in a few engagements. For me they are varied enough. One time it was easy and another time I spent multiple hours clearing a system. Also I like the big ships I have both ADCK Behemoths and Galactic Navy installed and then the battles are awesome. Remind me of Xwing. So please let this oxp alone and develop a new one. :?

For the rest I have a fairly 'traditional Ooniverse'. The border where I stop is that I don't add ship oxp's with ships from other sic fi genres like Star Wars/trek/Firefly etc.

So go ahead if you want a more 'purist' Ooniverse but then you can also play in strict mode.
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Switeck »

Gimi wrote:
Commander McLane wrote:Well, here's my suggestion: leave things as they are in the core game. Don't invent a strong navy out of the blue. Adding 16 Behemoths is fine, even adding rare encounters with Leviathans is fine. But I really don't see an infrastructure with heavy military presence everywhere. In Elite clearly nothing of the sort existed.
Spot on, and the very reason this discussion about a new "Navy" oxp came up (I actually think you are to blame for that McLane). Some, like you, find that the current Galactic Navy OXP does not fit within their Ooniverse. What you describe here, is where I would want this to go. But I also think that there should be some presence and some infrastructure for those that actively seek it out. The difficult part is finding the balance.
Back to my hacking Galactic Navy OXP ideas...
Eliminate "sector commands"...there is only typically 1 major navy installation in each Galaxy Chart, if that!

In Galaxy Chart 1, there's the Xeer Shipyards...which might somewhat resemble the Sector Commands found in Galactic Navy.
But beyond that, there's only the training base at Lave for new pilots that may be only loosely connected with the Galactic Navy.

In Galaxy Chart 3, there seems to be a "base" of sorts at Birera (a TL14 Rich Industrial Democracy). Maybe there's something else at Ceerdi, but since it's only a TL5 average agricultural Anarchy system...I doubt it.

The location of the official Galactic Navy presence in a Galactic Chart need not be convenient for the player. They may even exist as small office spaces in the normal main stations found at "capital" worlds (read: high TL places with stable governments). You encountered them that way to get the Constrictor and Thargoid Plans missions in the first place. Either there are multiple similar/identical "main stations" around rich worlds or even a single main station can hold a significant number of small ships, definitely at least 20...maybe even 100. With such capacities, there is no need for a specialized Galactic Navy station...especially since they're probably "thin-on-the-ground" if most really ARE out hunting Thargoids in interstellar space. After a disaster, news reporters at such stations could hardly ignore the arrival of a handful of badly damaged ships wearing the Galactic Navy colors. This would murder their PR, but at least shows they're fighting.

Having said that, the Galactic Navy Frigates are inappropriate for this since they're way too big to dock and bring little to the fight if the Thargoids avoid it or concentrate fire on it.
Behemoths would be too, but they're far rarer (16!) and even less likely to be seen near a regular station. The loss of just one would be devastating to an underfunded military. What if the bugs start singling them out? Funding could fail and morale could fall long before the Galactic Navy as a whole loses half of their ships.

What the Galactic Navy should have lots of is "regular" ships, but with a little better equipment than most traders/bounty hunters/pirates have.
So the Asps, Anaconda Transports, and other ships are all ok...but even they should be rarely seen.
It would be silly if they didn't also have the Boa 2 (Light?) Cruisers, what with their name hinting of a never-used purpose. These could be their midrange ships, acting as the "heavies" of a group in the absence of a Behemoth.

I've got a beef with how to fight the Thargoids. With no known base-of-operations and the ability to travel at-will through witchspace, there's not really much logistics to attack to weaken them. Presumably anywhere the Galactic Navy masses to fight them, the Thargoids could either attack them in huge numbers or possibly avoid them via some unknown long-ranged detection mode. The only point to catch Thargoids is when they attack shipping via induced misjumps in interstellar space.

A big fleet battle is placing a LOT of irreplaceable Galactic Navy "eggs" in 1 basket.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

pagroove wrote:I agree with SandJ. Please Develop this OXP as a separate oxp.
Where has anyone said HIMSN (if developed) would alter or replace GN? It's just another OXP! Don't panic!

@Switeck - we (whoever we are) are not talking about the damn Galactic Navy!

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Gimi »

pagroove wrote:I agree with SandJ. Please Develop this OXP as a separate oxp. So please let this oxp alone and develop a new one. :?
Just to clarify, and I think I speak for all who are looking at developing HIMSN.OXP. (Arrest me if I'm wrong)

It was never the intention to change or in any other way fiddle with Galactic Navy.OXP. We are looking at the possibility and plausibility of making something different that, for those who choose to use it, will implement a Navy in Oolite in a different way. So, this will NOT be Galactic Navy 6.0 if it ever comes to be. However, I don't foresee anyone having both HIMSN.oxp and Galactic Navy.oxp installed at the same time. So I also don't exclude the possibility that some ideas might be borrowed from Galactic Navy.oxp. There is a lot of good stuff in there. Hope this clarifies.

Edit: Ninja'd by El Viejo (Sort of)
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

pagroove wrote:So go ahead if you want a more 'purist' Ooniverse but then you can also play in strict mode.
You know something... I could happily play in strict mode if eye-candy was allowable!

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by pagroove »

Ok Ok Ok :).
Sorry for my panic EV. :)

I must admit I thought at first that there would be made a new version of the same oxp. But then it's ok. Anyway still curious then what this new oxp will bring on the table.
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

Hopefully, a barely perceptible Navy presence, with better gfx and a few missions along the lines of (but improved) the native missions.

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Gimi »

El Viejo wrote:
pagroove wrote:So go ahead if you want a more 'purist' Ooniverse but then you can also play in strict mode.
You know something... I could happily play in strict mode if eye-candy was allowable!
Agree, but I would miss the inter system possibilities that multiple stations in a system gives. I would also miss a few mission OXP's. But over time, as I have played Oolite more, OXP's tend to get pulled out at a steady pace. I still have a lot, but it's now mainly good looks and ambiance. Last thing to go out was liners and bulk haulers. I want the Anaconda to be big again.
Last edited by Gimi on Tue May 08, 2012 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Smivs »

pagroove wrote: Anyway still curious then what this new oxp will bring on the table.
The idea is to create a more 'believable' Navy presence that sits more comfortably in the Ooniverse as many of us see it.
The problem with GN is that it's too big. based on canon and lore the war against the Thargoids is played out mostly in InterGalactic space, and therefore you wouldn't expect to find a big naval presence in 'normal' space. There would not be navy ships all over the place (clogging up the spacelanes!) and the idea of numerous naval bases (SecComs) in each Galaxy also seems a bit silly. These stations also skew the game quite badly due to their market economics.
Also, GN often focusses on Pirates, and there is no justification for this within the game - that's what the GalCop Police are for.
We are talking about an OXP which adds a much more discrete (and believable) naval presence, with a more appropriate range of ships. It may in time also offer missions similar to the two in-built missions involving HIMSN, small, covert special-ops type missions rather than the somewhat repetitive mass shoot-em-ups that GN offers.
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Gimi »

El Viejo wrote:Hopefully, a barely perceptible Navy presence, with better gfx and a few missions along the lines of (but improved) the native missions.
The Navy is there if you go looking. If you do your normal trading, mining and bounty hunting you will never see them. They do not, under any circumstances, meddle in internal system politics. So, you will not be attacked by the Navy if you are an offender or even a fugitive for that matter. That is a police matter.
Last edited by Gimi on Tue May 08, 2012 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Cody »

I think we have a 'mission statement' in those last few posts, yes?

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Gimi »

El Viejo wrote:I think we have a 'mission statement' in those last few posts, yes?
Agree.
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Smivs »

<Smivs nods>

Off-topic - sorry!
Gimi, look out for the re-release of Liners in a week or so...the big Liners are going to become quite rare beasts - nice 'Easter Eggs' that you will only come across once in a long while. Most days, the biggest thing you will see is the Anaconda (and its Ferry variant :wink: ).
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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Disembodied »

I'm just talking off the top of my head here, but – while I support the idea of a smaller Navy where the player can pick up a few interesting missions around the fringes (and maybe get in over their heads on occasion), – would there be any scope in thinking about creating a "galaxy 9" as a functioning war zone between the Navy and the Thargoids? Would it be possible to code in a galaxy made up of largely Thargoid-dominated worlds, with a few Navy systems hemmed into a corner? Or is this hopelessly over-the-top?

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Re: Her Imperial Majesty's Space Navy

Post by Gimi »

Disembodied wrote:I'm just talking off the top of my head here, but – while I support the idea of a smaller Navy where the player can pick up a few interesting missions around the fringes (and maybe get in over their heads on occasion), – would there be any scope in thinking about creating a "galaxy 9" as a functioning war zone between the Navy and the Thargoids? Would it be possible to code in a galaxy made up of largely Thargoid-dominated worlds, with a few Navy systems hemmed into a corner? Or is this hopelessly over-the-top?
I like the idea, but this is way beyond me. I'm also quite certain that it would require changes to the Oolite source code, which is not within the scope of what we are looking at. I don't think this should be at the top of our list, but I would welcome anyone who wants to have a look at this. I would choose to make it an optional add-on though.
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