The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's bit.

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Diziet Sma » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:54 am

Commander McLane wrote:
Paradox wrote:how do you test a large ship? }:]
Large ships are best treated as NPCs only. A player ship that can't launch or dock at a standard main station is rather inconvenient, as you already discovered. And because Leviathans are living beings, it would make sense to (rarely) encounter one—even an unpiloted one—in the wild.
Further to which, the simplest way to test would be to spawn one via the Debug Console and observe its' behaviour, while also checking its' AI state/status via the same console. You can also spawn other ships to check interaction between them, as needed.

But this is somewhat outside my area of knowledge, so guidance from some of the others, and the relevant threads would be the way to go here.
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Smivs » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:53 am

Paradox wrote:
Maybe I am the only one looking out at the Oolite universe through my computer screen and trying to imagine, for just a little while, that I am really sitting inside the cockpit (that happens to be the size of a football field?) of my very own spaceship, fighting off pirates (whose "small" fighters are on scale with the Titanic?)... Once again, for *me*, it puts a crimp in the whole "immersion" thing.

Look, whatever... your not going to change the whole game just to suit me. I am not, nor at any point, have I asked you too. Hell, I didn't even hit the suggestion thread yet... The game is what it is. I was just trying to find a way to enjoy it in a way that made sense to me.
Ha, yes I think we all do that (try to make sense of it), and you are so right about the immersion thing. It's that that really makes the game.
One thing to consider is that Oolite is set in the 30th Century or thereabouts and the ships are going to be very different from the ships we build today. I hinted at this in my earlier post when I speculated about the large amount of bulky equipment that the ships might have. I suppose this is my way of justifying the sizes of the ships.
The other thing is, when playing the size/scale doesn't seem to notice really. Everything sort of looks about right and that helps as well.

Loving your Leviathan by the way. :)
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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Paradox » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:58 am

I saw some oxps that offer docking for larger vessels but the problem was... no saving there. So I downloaded the SaveAnywhere.oxp, but that isn't showing up on the F3 screen anywhere... By this time, my attention span and patience were wearing thin, so back to modeling!

"Well sonny, I remember back in the day during the great asteroid rush of '089, we was mining gemstones the size of your head yes sir! And doin it with nothing more than a hardsuit and a hand held mining laser to boot!..."

My how things have changed gramps! };] May I present the cutting edge in mining tech, The RockMuncher!

Image

I see there is Mining role, so I guess I will try that as well now.
Will the line:
roles = "player miner";
work?

What I really need is to find someone who can code but just doesnt like to model since I like to model, but hate trying to learn yet another coding language!

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Diziet Sma » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:18 am

Wow..

Nice job on the industrial-ugly texturing!
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Smivs » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:05 am

That's a mean looking ship - a bit like an angry fish/crab thing!

Any player can take up a career as a miner at any time. NPC miners use the role 'miner' in the shipdata.plist and a special mining AI (minerAI.plist).

Reagarding coding, although you may get offers of help from time to time most of those who can code are usually busy with their own projects as you'd expect.
Most of us started off not really knowing any and have tended to pick things up a we go along. The coding needed for oolite is actually pretty straight forward mostly and is not hard to learn, and there is always plenty of help and advice available here, so starting to learn js will certainly help develop you as an OXP developer, and is well worth the effort.
A good way to start is to have a look at the core game's innards where you will find examples of everything you will need including some js scripts. Be wary if using OXPs for guidance though. While many will be very useful, some older ones may use old methods and codes and could mis-lead a novice into bad ways :wink:
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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by cim » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:12 am

Smivs wrote:NPC miners use the role 'miner' in the shipdata.plist and a special mining AI (minerAI.plist).
While it's not enforced, they should also have a mining laser on their forward weapon mount, or they won't be very successful miners.

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Thargoid » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:34 am

Oh I dunno. I'm quite successful in mining cargo from ships with my military lasers :twisted:

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Smivs » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:01 am

Thargoid wrote:Oh I dunno. I'm quite successful in mining cargo from ships with my military lasers :twisted:
Tut-tut! :D
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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Commander McLane » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:02 pm

Paradox wrote:Will the line:
roles = "player miner";
work?
It is best to never mix the "player" role with any NPC role. If you want to create a player- and a non-player-version of a ship, you should have two different shipdata entries, for instance "mycoolnewship" and "mycoolnewship-player". That's how Oolite's own shipdata.plist distinguishes them. The player variant should only have

Code: Select all

roles = "player";
while the non-player variant (= NPC) can have any of the generic roles, and any combination thereof. For a dedicated miner ship which is never expected to be encountered in any other function

Code: Select all

roles = "miner";
is sufficient.

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Paradox » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:06 pm

Commander McLane wrote:It is best to never mix the "player" role with any NPC role. If you want to create a player- and a non-player-version of a ship, you should have two different shipdata entries, for instance "mycoolnewship" and "mycoolnewship-player". That's how Oolite's own shipdata.plist distinguishes them. The player variant should only have

Code: Select all

roles = "player";
while the non-player variant (= NPC) can have any of the generic roles, and any combination thereof. For a dedicated miner ship which is never expected to be encountered in any other function

Code: Select all

roles = "miner";
is sufficient.
Ah, okay, that I understand. Just split the shipdata.plist into two sections and assign the different roles in each. Ok, think I got it, thanks.
Smivs wrote:While it's not enforced, they should also have a mining laser on their forward weapon mount, or they won't be very successful miners.
Have that taken care of, it's actually inset into its "forehead". };]
Smivs wrote:so starting to learn js will certainly help develop you as an OXP developer, and is well worth the effort.
The problem is, I enjoy modeling... hate scripting and "fine tuning". I don't have the patience for it. I tried looking into quaternions to sort out my custom_views issue... YA RIGHT! 30 seconds into that page and I was bleeding out of my ears (why can't there just be a point_at coordinate set?)... I have enough of a handle on the plist now to get my ships into the game, but not enough patience to try scripting them (exhaust origins seem to move back and forth an awful lot though...) I build 'em, get them into the game and working enough so I can play with them, but they would need more work before being ready for public consumption, and that's where I fail. And, why I offered to give my models to anyone who enjoys, or is simply willing, to bring them into the game in a much more "professional" manner than I can. };] It's all good. If no one wants them, I still get to play with them, just thought I would make the offer. }:]

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Smivs » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:13 pm

It sounds like you have mastered all you need to then :)
If your interest lies in making ships and getting them into the game performing 'normal' roles and functions, the plists are all you need really.
It is only if you want them to display unique behaviour that you will need to tinker with AIs, and scripting (js) is not needed unless you want them to appear in particular places or do clever things. For something like your Miner just stick to the core AI and spawn them as Miners and you'll be fine.
One thing you might want to look at are the 'materials' attributes which will allow you to add lighting and normal maps to your ships. These can make a world of difference to the appearance of them.

P.S. Quaternions make my head explode as well :D
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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Diziet Sma » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:19 pm

For custom views, the best easiest method is to not mess with quaternions at all.. just find a ship whose views you like and steal use those. At most, you may need to move the x,y,z coordinates around some to get them where you want them, but it beats the hell out of bleeding from the eyeballs. :wink:
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Paradox » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:42 pm

Smivs wrote:...One thing you might want to look at are the 'materials' attributes which will allow you to add lighting and normal maps to your ships. These can make a world of difference to the appearance of them.

P.S. Quaternions make my head explode as well :D
I am afraid my little ol' laptop is unable to handle the fancy graphic tricks, on-board wheezy video card and all. }:[ And no transparency hunh? Bummer:

Image
Diziet Sma wrote:For custom views, the best easiest method is to not mess with quaternions at all.. just find a ship whose views you like and steal use those. At most, you may need to move the x,y,z coordinates around some to get them where you want them, but it beats the hell out of bleeding from the eyeballs.
I understand the need for them when trying to make functional turrets etc, just wish there was an easier point_at for creating custom views. };] The problem with them arose when I finally got a Farscape Leviathan out of the dock ( Full throttle and pull up hard on the stick as you go through the tunnel. Also need every armor upgrade available 'cuz your gonna lose them all getting out. Works 1 out of 3 times. :twisted: ). I used the view set from the python I think but with the leviathan being 1500 meters long... they weren't cutting it. I tried a few tweaks, but there are just too many ships in my head trying to get out! See above }:]

Now I have to go start work on the Planet Express from Futurama! };]

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Paradox » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:08 am

Image

Help meeeee... I can't stop long enough to even play now! };]

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Re: The Shipyard at the End of the Ooniverse. Modeller's b

Post by Diziet Sma » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:04 am

Oh man.. SandJ is just gonna "squeeeee!" when he sees that Spaceman Spiff model! (Spiff is his avatar) And the Planet Express ship is awesome! 8)
Paradox wrote:Help meeeee... I can't stop long enough to even play now! };]
Welcome to the Darkside of Oolite! Cookies are on the plate over in the corner. :mrgreen:
Paradox wrote:I used the view set from the python I think but with the leviathan being 1500 meters long... they weren't cutting it. I tried a few tweaks, but there are just too many ships in my head trying to get out! See above }:]
Here are a set of External Views I adapted from a Caduceus for use with a Behemoth. They might make a better starting point for your Leviathan. As they are generally in the 1.5-3.0 km range from ship centre, they might be a little too close still, but you should at least be able to see enough of the ship to be able to tweak the x,y,z coordinates to suit

Code: Select all

		custom_views = (
			{
				view_description = "Aft-Fore Above";
				view_orientation = "1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0";
				view_position = "0.0 120.0 -1500.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Aft Starboard Cross";
				view_orientation = "0.9239 0.0 0.3827 0.0";
				view_position = "1500.0 0.0 -1500.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Starboard Cross";
				view_orientation = "0.7071 0.0 0.7071 0.0";
				view_position = "2500.0 0.0 0.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Starboard Cross Close";
				view_orientation = "0.7071 0.0 0.7071 0.0";
				view_position = "1200.0 0.0 0.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Fore Starboard Cross";
				view_orientation = "0.3827 0.0 0.9239 0.0";
				view_position = "1200.0 0.0 1200.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Fore-Aft";
				view_orientation = "0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0";
				view_position = "0.0 0.0 1400.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Fore Port Cross";
				view_orientation = "0.3827 0.0 -0.9239 0.0";
				view_position = "-1200.0 0.0 1200.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Port Cross";
				view_orientation = "0.7071 0.0 -0.7071 0.0";
				view_position = "-2500.0 0.0 0.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Port Cross Close";
				view_orientation = "0.7071 0.0 -0.7071 0.0";
				view_position = "-1200.0 0.0 0.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Aft Port Cross";
				view_orientation = "0.9239 0.0 -0.3827 0.0";
				view_position = "-1500.0 0.0 -1500.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				"view-description" = "Tactical";
				view_orientation = "-0.7071 0.7071 0.0 0.0";
				view_position = "0.0 5000.0 0.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Reverse Tactical";
				view_orientation = "0.0 0.0 0.7071 0.7071";
				view_position = "0.0 -5000.0 0.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Broadside";
				view_orientation = "0.3827 0.0 0.9239 0.0";
				view_position = "3000.0 0.0 3000.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Cinematic1";
				view_orientation = "0.9961 0.0 -0.0871 0.0";
				view_position = "-1000.0 200.0 -3000.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Cinematic2";
				view_orientation = "0.9961 0.0 -0.0871 0.0";
				view_position = "-1000.0 -200.0 -3000.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			},
			{
				view_description = "Aft-Fore Below";
				view_orientation = "1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0";
				view_position = "0.0 -120.0 -1500.0";
				weapon_facing = "FORWARD";
			}
		);
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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