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 Post subject: [RELEASE] Fighters 1.4
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:15 pm 
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Ships usually large in Oolite, holding as big cargo canisters (6x6x10m) as fighter planes.
This give a chance to use Fuel Scoop as launcher of Light Fighters stored in cargo space.

The following fighters are in real sizes, compare with a cargo box:
Image

A light fighter with pulse laser occupy 5t space, which allow to put some into a Cobra MkIII also.

There is a limit at 8 fighters, to use 16 you need a Fighter Bay which allocate another 20t for a control room and some living space for the crew.

Fighter Support Center give communication and supply rooms as like in a carrier to handle 40 fighters, but occupy 100t for itself and need a ship with at least 400t mass like Anaconda.

Fighter Hangar store 80 fighters on very big ships over 8000t mass (which can not fit into regular docks) like [wiki]Andromeda[/wiki] or [wiki]Condor[/wiki].

Heavy Fighters are useful in medium freighters (Python, Boa) where the maximal number of fighters is the bottleneck. These has Dual Pulse Lasers (together equal with a beam laser in power just has a bit shorter range), shields (counter to light fighters these are regenerate during combat), ECM, more energy and faster recharge but larger shape than light fighters, so allocate 10-25t depending on type. These can not fit into the Scoop so require Fighter Bay, which offer doors prepared for launches.

Compare size of a heavy fighter with light ones:
Image

More comparsion from missiles to Adder:
Image

From technical side, scripts made for [wiki]Star Destroyer[/wiki] can make fighters usable in more ships, just needed more work to implement the additional rules mentioned above - I say this after combat tests where light and heavy fighters are launched from my 'conda. ;)

Image

More info in the [wiki]Fighters[/wiki] wiki page.

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Last edited by Norby on Tue May 16, 2017 11:17 am, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [WIP] Fighters
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:03 pm 
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Hello Norby,

I think you may be onto something here. Sometimes we do find ourselves surrounded by many hostile vessel;s and it would be advantageous to have some little helpers in such situations. Obviously, as with the Star Destroyers TIE Fighters they should be buyable and geared to cargo capacity. I am not so sure they should all be equivalent to just one cargo container though.

My thinking is something along the lines of the :

One Cargo Container capacity Escort... Mild irritant defensively speaking
Two Cargo Container capacity Escort.... Irritating defensively
Three Cargo Container capacity Escort... May sting a little bit
Four Cargo Container capacity escort.. Will Sting
Five Tonnes of Escort.... This is gonna hurt...


Or something along those lines... If it is doable... Still a great fan of your work ..

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 Post subject: Re: [WIP] Fighters
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:53 pm 
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Thank you for the reply, we can discuss about two different parameters.

1. The size of ship models, what you see and enemies try to hit in the deep space.

A feature of fighters is the extremely small size, so far very few ships provided such hard to hit and laser equipped targets, like combat drones (the leftmost model in the first row in the last image above). I think the small size is a good thing here, give a feeling about how hard to catch these with the weapons of a much larger ship.

The last image show possible larger fighters which are less hard targets but survive more hits. Even five different fighters are imaginable after a while, but I plan to use existing ships only, this is why I gathered the candidates.
I can adjust the sizes of ships so if you have suggestions about sizes or to use another models then just tell me.

2. The occupied space in cargo bay.

This is a playability question, so regardless of a light figther fit into a cargo canister, it occupy more than 1t space in cargo bay. For handwavium repairs need additional tools with supply and the pilot and service team need some living space.

Moreover somehow must limit the numbers to prevent oddities like 100 fighters in a Python. The maximal number is a way for this, but if only 8 is allowed and these occupy 8*1t only then this mean almost nothing in a freighter, so the smallest fighter should occupy more than 1t.

If you would like five different fighters then 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25t is a line where 8 allowed fighters still force to make decisions in most freighters, for example can not fit 8 of the largest fighters into the 175t cargo space in a Boa Class Cruiser.

I like to hear suggestions, even more fighters and lower occupied spaces are imaginable.

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 Post subject: Re: [WIP] Fighters
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:19 pm 
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Again a very nice idea! I certainly would like some of those 'cargotainerfighters' in my BOA...

1] If i look at the image with the adder somehow the scale of the tieś xwings and colonials seem somehow off by 200% compared to the adder.

2] tonnage
smallest fighter, that drone model looks nice also by size ,5t
.
.
.
largest fighter, model unknown,25t
(5 models ranging in size, power and tonnage seems more than enough)

pilot,fuel and mechanic space allocation
1 fighter 5t
10 fighters 50t
100 fighters 500t ( with 100 pilots --> we need chefs, a doctor, at least 10 mechanics, recreation, enough toilets, etc )


3] price setting, amount of fighters
If one would like to fill his anaconda with 50 of the smallest fighters ( 50x5t = 250t + 250t ) leaves some room for cargo.
cost 100 x 50.000 = 500.000 ?
If one would fill an anaconda with 20 of the largest fighters ( 20 x 25t = 500t +100t ) anaconda-carrier with room for some cargo
cost 20 x 150.000 = 3.000.000 ?

A boa cruiser would be able to load 5 heavy fighters ( 5 x 25t + 5x5t = 150t ) which leave some room for your ware$ or vip$


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 Post subject: Re: [WIP] Fighters
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 11:44 pm 
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Thank you for the input!

1. Ships from movies has enough data on the net to determine real sizes, so I resized these matching to the data, down to 0.3-0.7x. The already playable models in other oxps are enlarged by the authors to fit better into the oversized world of Oolite, but I want these in the original size to get the real feeling of these tiny ships and use the little size as the main advantage of fighters.

2. You can use the drone right now if you install [wiki]Armoury[/wiki], just occupy a missile pylon instead of cargo space. It is not excluded but need a good reason to appear here.

Currently an 5t light fighter and a 10t heavy fighter is implemented.

Space allocation: a light fighter fit into a cargo canister so the ship itself need 1t only and accessories occupy 4t. The "t" mean volume here due to this is the unit of the cargo bay. This is why the first 8 fighters fit into without additional space in my imagination. The next 8 need additional 20t for a control room and a canteen. ;)

For Anaconda we think to the same 100t as allocation of additional support. In my current plan it allow to control 40 fighters, regardless of type. I think if 72 fighters need a Star Destroyer then a ship which fit into standard docks should not be able to use more. So not the occupied space of fighters is the bottleneck but the overhead caused by pilots, communication, etc. which is linear with the used fighters. This cause that in an Anaconda the best to use the largest fighter type, this match well to the practice where larger ships usually has larger escorts.

3. About prices I plan fighters almost disposable so very cheap. In Star Destroyer a TIE Fighter cost only 1000Cr, a TIE Interceptor need 2000Cr. The very small size and mass production should confirm this so I plan to use the same prices in this addon also. Fighters are represented as multiple equipments like berths in your ship until not launched so damages can generate repair costs.

Light fighters are not shielded, if arrive back below the 40% of the original hull then set to damaged in the equipment list so you must pay for repair in stations regularly.

Heavy fighters can get damages also during combat and a damaged fighter can not launch again so you must pay the half of the full cost for fixing first. I do not think fighters will be used at all if generate high repair bills so must be cheap imho.

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 Post subject: Re: [WIP] Fighters
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:01 am 
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Meantime I added many new functions into the code which need tests and maybe fixes so no release yet, but [wiki]Fighters[/wiki] wiki page is up for comments.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:56 pm 
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[wiki]Fighters[/wiki] v1.0 arrived into the Weapons category (due to give firepower):
Image

There are 6 fighter types in the package, each with unique features described in the wiki.
I adjusted a lot until I think a larger type worth more than the same space is filled with smaller fighters (so a King is better than 5 Light Fighters) and not much more better to avoid uberships, but comments are welcomed.

Even the strongest fighter is weak alone but a large group could be very effective:
Image
Laser lines start from my fighters, target is in the right bottom corner. ;)

More screenshots in the wiki.

A savegame help in a test ride with all fighters on board.

I would like to say THANK YOU to Shipbuilder, Thargoid, Killer Wolf and Knotty for the models used in [wiki]Fighters[/wiki].

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:50 pm 
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Would be nice if the player could switch to the onboard camera of the fighters :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Will there be npc boa/anaconda with some of these fighters onboard?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:05 pm 
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Onboard camera is a nice idea and possible just I must look after how to do it.

NPCs with fighters is a planned feature in a future version, yes.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:51 pm 
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I am very impressed with this expansion pack. Well done Commander Norby :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:33 pm 
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Thank you! Here is a size comparsion image from 5t to 25t fighters (click for original):
Image

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Last edited by Norby on Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:17 pm 
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Hello Norby,

Currently I only seem to be able equip my ship with Light Fighters or Raiders. from the F3 screen

I do not seem to be able to buy a Swarm Fighter Group, A Galtech Interceptor, A Shark, or a King .

I do have the space , A Fighter Bay and the Fighter Support Centre and have visited Ceexse (tech level 15) but still only light fighters and raiders are for sale.

Am I missing something please ? :)


Addendum ... I was indeed missing something :oops: I failed to read understand the dependencies for these vessels. please disregard .

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Yes, the hint in the short description in expansion manager mean that the "green" fighters (covered by organic armor) are shown only if you have enough Alien Items to build them, moreover the last 3 types need specific galaxies or finished core missions.

The goal is the player start with the simple fighters and work hard to get better and better types.

Worth to scoop back the left behind Alien Items when your organic fighter destroyed, as well as your fighter pilot floating around in spacesuit.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:35 pm 
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V1.1 is out with tweaks and balance changes:
- Improved target selection of Fighters, aim owner's target only when near.
- Damaged Light Fighters do landing regardless of alert level.
- Fighter Support Center require very big undockable ship over 8000t mass.
- Fixed Galtech fighter's stopover by lower accuracy (8, which disable sniper mode).
- Shark laser power halved, still very effective due to Sniper Lock.
- Sniper Lock range reduced to 6km.
- King cost raised to 50000Cr.

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