Ship Comparison (Release)

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Fritz
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Fritz »

That won't work because I want to show less in the targeting system than in the shipyard. Even more important is what is said in communication: Sentences like "Drop your cargo, Python!" or "A structurally unsound Python, they said..." sound strange if you put in "Python Gunship". The fun is that they don't know that they are not dealing with an old freighter but with one that has more weapons and shields than cargo capacity!

The same problem exists with many of the core ships, e.g. "Boa Class Cruiser", "Sidewinder Scout Ship", or "Moray Medical Boat". And I always wondered what this "Mamba Escort" is about... it's a Mamba and no one can tell the difference!

To be perfect, each ship would need three names:
- shipyard name
- targeting display name
- communications name

The latter would be "Moray", "Boa 2" / "Boa Cruiser", "Cobra 1", "Cobra 3", "Interceptor", "Sidewinder" and so on. Nobody calls a "Boeing 747-400F" like this, its a "747" or a "Jumbo"!
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Smivs »

Fritz wrote:That won't work because I want to show less in the targeting system than in the shipyard. Even more important is what is said in communication: Sentences like "Drop your cargo, Python!" or "A structurally unsound Python, they said..." sound strange if you put in "Python Gunship". The fun is that they don't know that they are not dealing with an old freighter but with one that has more weapons and shields than cargo capacity!

The same problem exists with many of the core ships, e.g. "Boa Class Cruiser", "Sidewinder Scout Ship", or "Moray Medical Boat". And I always wondered what this "Mamba Escort" is about... it's a Mamba and no one can tell the difference!
There is a difference though.
Take your Mamba example, the Mamba (which appears in a pirate, pirate light fighter or hunter role) is different to the Mamba Escort which is principally an escort/light escort but can also be a pirate. The Escort doesn't get the scoop or shield boosters which the Mamba can have. However the Mamba Escort has a beam laser where the Mamba only gets a pulse laser. So these are significant differences.
Also they had (and still have if you have a Classic universe) completely different paint-jobs. The same story is also true for Pythons, Sidewinders and Morays etc.
So the scanner identifying them as what they are is completely logical - it gives you the bare basics of an accurate I.D. of the ship model and variant.
A 'modified' ship probably should just be labelled as the model and variant it is based on as the Ship's mods would be unofficial and the ship's transponder would not reflect this type of change. I'm not familiar with this Python Gunship you mention, but my instincts are if it is based on a standard Python, it should just be ID'd as a Python on the scanner.
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Fritz »

The question is: What can a scanner know? If it's only a kind of radar, it can only see the outer shape, and this is identical for all differently equipped variants. So there must be some kind of transponder to supply additional information, like in the real world a transponder supplies information about plane model, speed and altitude. But why should anybody in the Ooniverse be honest about his equipment? Why should I, if I have bought a military laser for my Mamba, tell everyone about it, especially if I am a pirate?

It's a good thing that there are different NPC versions of ships in the game, but they all should simply be called the same. Only if you buy one you should see the difference!

My Python Gunship is somehow similar (but with some smaller differences in the specifications) to a Python Clipper - less cargo space but faster than the standard Python. So it isn't, like the Mamba Escort, just a differently equipped ship: Like the Python Clipper, it cant' be made by just buying enough equipment for a standard Python. So it is a different "class" but you can't see it. And nobody should see it until it's too late!
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Amah »

hmmh, just a thought. It could be possible to alter the ship_class_name via script or condition_script on adding to the Universe, I assume.

var p = player.ship;
p.shipClassName = "wolf in a sheep's fur";
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Fritz »

Hmm... I'll try this... but the whole naming thing will only become a problem when I release the Python variant as an OXP.
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Amah »

Hmmh, maybe something like this for player's ship might work:

this.shipSpawned = function ()
{
this.ship.shipClassName = "wolf in a sheep's fur";
};

I do something similar when buying a yasen-n turret (actually the other way around) and change ship class on the fly.
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Smivs »

Fritz wrote:The question is: What can a scanner know?
Well, we know the answer to that. It knows the type and model/variant of ships it detects. It has always been thus, and my personal opinion is that this is because all ships have a GalCop transponder which is intimately incorporated into the ship's structure and cannot be tampered with.
Yes, the Python Clipper is identified as such because when built, the transponder was programmed to reflect this. It is a distinct model, not a modified regular Python, with obvious visual differences to a standard Python - two engines instead of the standard Python's single drive, and external auxiliary fuel tanks. A standard python when adapted or modified (in whatever way) would still be ID'd as a Python.
Your Gunship sounds like it should have a unique name to me, as it is (and never was) a standard Python.
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Fritz »

Yes, it should have one in the ship yard, but this name shouldn't be used in verbal communications. And on the scanner? Perhaps it's only me, but I like it if I don't see from 25 km away if a pirate uses a standard Python or a Gunship. Btw, is there a Clipper version using the current (Griff) model?

I wonder what NPCs know about me (and other NPCs). Do they know the specifications given in shipdata.plist? And if yes, do they read this list by key (shipClassName) or by display name? I don't have the impression that they react to me as if I was flying a standard Python.

But, on the other hand, I think we are very off-topic meanwhile... :oops:
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Amah »

Don't think there's a Python Clipper for the Griff Ooniverse... What are its specs?
Last edited by Amah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Smivs »

Fritz wrote:Btw, is there a Clipper version using the current (Griff) model?
No.
Fritz wrote: But, on the other hand, I think we are very off-topic meanwhile... :oops:
Hehe, yes, we are quite good at that around here. :)
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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by phkb »

@Norby: ok I found out why the escort deck ships show up with NaN for some values. In the shipdata.plist file in EscortDeck the "like_ship" is entered as "like-ship". I do not know if this was deliberate, but if I change the dash to an underscore everything works fine.

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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by Norby »

phkb wrote:in EscortDeck the "like_ship" is entered as "like-ship"
Thanks for spotting! I will fix in the next version.

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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by phkb »

Version 1.3 is out now. In this version:

- Added a "+" symbol to extra cargo value to make it clearer it is in addition to the base cargo capacity.
- Additional ship data overrides.
- Added dictionary and code examples to allow OXP's to override ship data for a particular data key.

@Fritz: If you want to add your customised Python to the list as a separate item, distinct from the standard Python, just add this code to your startUpComplete script:

Code: Select all

	var sc = worldScripts.ShipComparison;
	if (sc) {
		// add an override for a particular ship data key, giving it a new name
		sc._override["python_gunship_datakey"] = "Python Gunship";
		
		// optionally, if you need to override the extra cargo capacity or the weapon facings, use the following
		// data element 1 is the additional cargo available for this ship type (0 in the example)
		// data element 2 is the weapon facings on this ship type (1 = forward only, 3 = forward and aft, 15 = all) (15 = All in the example)
		sc._extraData["Python Gunship"] = [0, 15];
	}

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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by UK_Eliter »

I'm late to this thread, but just want to say that I like the sound of this OXP. Good stuff.

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Re: Ship Comparison (Release)

Post by gsagostinho »

@phkb I am having a small issue with this OXP. For some reason, the amount of cargo of my Cobra Mk. IV OXP is being shown as "45", but it should actually be "45 (+15)" since this ship can have a cargo bay extension (it has a EQ_CARGO_BAY as optional equipment in the shipyard file). Do you know if this is because of some mistake on my side, perhaps I am missing some parameter in the ship definition?

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