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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:03 pm 
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There are three types of hermits. The standard miner one, a chaotic one and a pirate version. All look the same, but have different allegiances set and different markets. Maybe something could be done to distinguish them more.
Most seem to be miners... located in asteroid fields, and a mining ship around. But these are probably more easy to find than the others.
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Blame Griff for that :lol: . Earlier they really were just rocks with a hole. The current model is quite pompous and looks more like a city than a hermit.
I'm aware of this. But even the original ones were large enough to accommodate a Cobra 3 or a Python, weren't they? No single poor hermit could afford to construct a docking port even for an Orbital Shuttle!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:13 pm 
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There are three types of hermits. The standard miner one, a chaotic one and a pirate version. All look the same, but have different allegiances set and different markets. Maybe something could be done to distinguish them more.
Most seem to be miners... located in asteroid fields, and a mining ship around. But these are probably more easy to find than the others.
Quote:
Blame Griff for that :lol: . Earlier they really were just rocks with a hole. The current model is quite pompous and looks more like a city than a hermit.
I'm aware of this. But even the original ones were large enough to accommodate a Cobra 3 or a Python, weren't they? No single poor hermit could afford to construct a docking port even for an Orbital Shuttle!
Now we're stepping in to a gameplay area. Probably no point in making a hermit that the player could not dock at.

If we're really seeing them as cities in space, then one might assume that they would have beacons to make it easier to stock supplies and so on.

I like to imagine them as solitary lone bastards. No matter how fancy their station looks like. Maybe their stations really should look like piles of garbage built from debris?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:23 pm 
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...even the original [hermits] were large enough to accommodate a Cobra 3 or a Python, weren't they?

Well, there would be little point in having them if you couldn't dock with them, would there?
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No single poor hermit could afford to construct a docking port even for an Orbital Shuttle!
In my mind, these (the old boxy ones - not the space-cities) were built piecemeal over time by several miners using whatever scrap and recycled materials they could lay hand on. To start with these were just as somewhere to 'park' overnight and maybe get some sleep in slightly more comfortable surroundings than the cockpit chair. It would be used as a store as well for supplies and the products of their mining, and so over time both the number of users and the size of the construction increased which eventually made it viable to install an actual dock so they could accommodate traders and grow their business.
There are other, much smaller hermitages - new ones started by other miners - around, but as they are still little more than shacks and are not established and have no dock etc, we are un-aware of them.

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Last edited by Smivs on Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Not normal cities... more like a pirate's village built on an uncharted island. The inhabitants can be ex-criminals, active criminals, or simply people who ran away from their old life, their family, their bank...

Another explanation would be to consider rock hermits as abandoned mines that once had to accommodate big freighters. That would explain the huge docking ports.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:06 pm 
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Rock Hermits are bigger asteroids that have been hollowed out and mined out, so a gaping hole to dock into isn't too surprising. Their density is way lower than any untouched asteroid of roughly the same size.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:45 pm 
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For what it's worth, my current sentiment is that the current implementation of rock hermits is spot on.
IMHO the market isn't economical enough even without pirate cove. Oolite core unfortunately has a lot of economical imbalances, the fact that normal inter system main station - main station trade yields more money than bounty hunting is another example (as hunting is the more dangerous job is has to be more effective).
Docking with most current core hermits yields only maybe 100cr via precious metal trade or so rather than several 100 cr at a few productive hermits. I don't know a general reasoning other than precious metal trade do dock with a hermit; for other trade you'd have to know the market stats in advance, prepare for them and such - too complicated. Then they're often not easy to find and pirate attacks are frequent even without the cove. That's why I installed this OXP alongside pirate cove as it makes searching and docking with hermits worthwhile.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:07 pm 
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For what it's worth, my current sentiment is that the current implementation of rock hermits is spot on.
IMHO the market isn't economical enough even without pirate cove...
All this depends on the game you're playing. If it's a trader's game, then yes, the hermits probably aren't worth it. But if it's a pirate's game, then the possibility to save at them makes them well worth being there.

Could they serve some other purpose than just another market or treasure chest type of thing?

Now to think about it, it would be quite awesome to have some random missions available from hermits and some could even offer the same service as Hacker Outposts from Anarchies do. There are already three different types of hermit out there, each of these could offer some characteristic service.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Missions from and especially to hermits would be on my wish list too.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:51 am 
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To continue this a bit. Currently there three types of hermits:

1. neutral allegiance "pirates and criminals will not dock here, but may hang around outside safely. Everyone else may dock"

-exports mining products (capacity 31)
-imports edible supplies (capacity 15)
-imports clothes (capacity 7)
-imports machinery (capacity 7)
-everything else (capacity 3)

2. chaotic allegiance "anyone will be allowed to dock here"

-exports mining products (capacity 31)
-imports edible supplies (capacity 15)
-imports clothes (capacity 7)
-imports machinery (capacity 7)
-imports alien items (capacity 7)
-everything else (capacity 7)

3. pirate allegiance "pirates and criminals can dock here, while others may get a hostile response"

-exports mining products (capacity 15)
-exports salvage (capacity 15)
-imports alien items (capacity 7)
-everything else (capacity 7)

So there are differences, but with random elements they tend to be subtle and since every hermit type looks the same, it's hard to tell them apart. Maybe something should be done to differentiate them so that player would instantly know which he/she is visiting. Some visual clue would be best. Pirate ones could have a flag waving on top of the station.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:39 pm 
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No wonder I didn't notice the differences! I was attacked outside rock hermits on rare occasions (but definitely around mining hermits too) but I never had the impression that I wasn't welcome on the hermit itself.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:59 pm 
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3. pirate allegiance "pirates and criminals can dock here, while others may get a hostile response"
The little sister of a pirate cove then. How does this work, perhaps pirates being spawned and instantly attacking after relaunch ? Or launching from the hermit ? But I never was arrested or something while docked, despite a strong trader and hunter behavior.
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Pirate ones could have a flag waving on top of the station.
Please don't distinguish them. If there's a way to avoid dangerous hermits there's even less reason to make the markets more effective.
The ones that have a miner outside are usually not pirate ones though, and never pirate coves. Offenders outside is also a hint on a pirate hermit (and on a looming attack :? )

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:21 pm 
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3. pirate allegiance "pirates and criminals can dock here, while others may get a hostile response"
The little sister of a pirate cove then. How does this work, perhaps pirates being spawned and instantly attacking after relaunch ? Or launching from the hermit ? But I never was arrested or something while docked, despite a strong trader and hunter behavior.
I quoted wiki directly and don't know the exact behavior. Maybe Cim will answer this one.
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Pirate ones could have a flag waving on top of the station.
Please don't distinguish them. If there's a way to avoid dangerous hermits there's even less reason to make the markets more effective.
The ones that have a miner outside are usually not pirate ones though, and never pirate coves. Offenders outside is also a hint on a pirate hermit (and on a looming attack :? )
I hear you :) . However, I would like some visual or textual clue about the station either very close to the station or at least when I have docked. For example if someone opens fire at me close to a Hermit, a taunt saying "this is the property of the Jackals Gang, prepare to die, trader" would be nice. And after docking, perhaps the station name could be "Pirate Cove."


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:32 pm 
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If I was running a pirate-type rock hermit, I'd be more than happy for occasional traders to dock - but they'd launch minus any cargo they happened to be carrying.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:05 pm 
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If I was running a pirate-type rock hermit, I'd be more than happy for occasional traders to dock - but they'd launch minus any cargo they happened to be carrying.
Now that would be a nice surprise :) .

The problem seems to be that although the core game has quite nice set of hermits, players don't realize that and assume that all hermits are alike: selling a few gems at low price. However, if you're playing as a criminal, you might be interested to know that there are hermits out there that stock all sorts of commodities and allow you to dock as a fugitive and all. I think the information about the variety of hermits should somehow be passed to the player. I'm not a manual reader, so something hinting of the existence of other hermits in-game would be optimal. For example, following Cody's idea, when docking as a clean trader to a pirate version, a mission screen stating that the hermit has been taken by xxx and the player has been relieved of his/her cargo. Or when playing as a pirate, a fellow pirate hinting of a pirate hermit in system.

And I would really like to know the type of the hermit when docked and this could easily be done by renaming the hermit when docked. Something like:

"Rock Hermit (mining base)"
"Rock Hermit (neutral harbor)"
"Rock Hermit (pirate hideout)"

If someone wants to test this naming idea out, here's a quick oxp for that: https://app.box.com/s/bxxjmg9ed3o9glom147d6th0yk2e2sf3


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:21 pm 
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"Rock Hermit (mining base)"
"Rock Hermit (neutral harbor)"
"Rock Hermit (pirate hideout)"
<chortles>

"Rock Hermit (straight)"
"Rock Hermit (chaotic)"
"Rock Hermit (dangerous)"

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