Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Redspear »

Version 0.6 is almost ready.

It's getting much closer to resembling something like my hopes for the project...

Image

  • Major Changes:
    More forgiving to the smaller and lower tech vessels.
    'New Lasers' type overhaul using the ROYGBIV rainbow template: bigger vessel, more powerful lasers.
    Some workarounds for ship elements that are not yet writable via script e.g. fuel cost.
    Less restrictive grade specialisms.

Lines that have been 'greyed out' are not yet implemented and are not likely to be in time for the upcoming release.
Bold text (where not a heading) indicates new equipment items.

As before, tech and size are set in stone for each ship but grade can be altered via purchased re-fits.
There's still quite a bit of nerfing going on (whole premise is that no ship can have everything) but there are some powerful new options too like bolt lasers and hardened shield boosters.
Main appeal is likely to be for those who like to work their way up from a weaker starting vessel.

  • Cobra Mk III example (high tech, large vessel):
    The service option is a miner specialist. No large cargo bay, passenger berths or missiles but an improved recharge rate. A cheap refit option.
    The 'transit' is essentially the ship from the original elite. 0.3LM speed, large cargo bay and improved recharge but no passenger berths. Again, a fairly cheap option.
    'Civilian' is the standard oolite model. No large cargo bay but 4 uninstallable passenger berths (one more than an LCB would usually allow) and 20 TC cargo. Medium price.
    'Military' has only one disadvantage (no LCB) but has unbreakable military shields and an improved energy rercharge rate. Getting a little more pricey.
    'Performance' is the speed merchant option at 0.4LM. Cargo capacity is down to 5TC in this case but recharge is also improved. Most expensive choice.

Compatability with other oxps is likely to be limited so this is best tried out with a new commander or at lest a backed up save file.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Damocles Edge »

Hello there (why do I hear Alec Guinness in my head?) :wink:

I've found that I keep coming back to look at this oxp when I am perusing the oxp list for something new to add.
It strikes me that it opens up a huge amount of variety and subtlety to how the game is played and what equipment is chosen.
Can I ask (and please accept my apologies in advance if this has been already answered elsewhere) but does this oxp just work with core ships or will it work with oxp ships too?

Many thanks
Last edited by Damocles Edge on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Redspear »

Hi Damacles Edge and thanks for your interest in this little project. It's been due an update for quite a while but it keeps meeting with delays/distractions, so much so that the next one really should be 0.8.

To answer your question, it works with any player ship but perhaps more predictably with core ships.

I need to finish off the latest version (which has had a bit of a shake up) and get a wiki page together but... time is precious.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Damocles Edge »

Thanks for the reply sir :)

I tried installing the oxp and using with my current save position - but it seems that EBSC does like to play with CobraMkIV oxp (my current ship). As soon as I launch from dock my status turns red (even though there is seemingly nothing attacking).
I've removed the EBSC for now but will come back to revisit when I have a core ship.
Can I ask you to clarify something for me please?
Does EBSC alter what range equipment you buy via F3 or does it work by placing modifiers on equipment which is already available based on your ship?
The only reason I ask is that I couldn't see any change in what equipment was available to me using my save position with EBSC oxp installed (although it should be pointed out that I was at low tech level system at the time).

Thank you again for your response and I look forward to revisiting the oxp soon. :)
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Damocles Edge »

I decided to start a new game and keep "Equipment By Ship Class" oxp.
So far I am experimenting with the stock Cobra mk3 which comes with performance fittings.
I am trying to decide how to plan for future purchases - whether to change ship for maybe a python or whether to stick with the cobra mk3, but there is also the issue of which ship setting I employ and in this lies my biggest area of uncertainty. I have been trying to discern from previous posts in this thread how the various fittings (service, transit, civilian, military, performance) work with each ship, what bonuses or restrictions are incurred. But I am having a bit of an issue in determining what is current and what is proposed.
I also noticed in a post dated 24 Sep 2016 a table indicating injector burn rates wit FS installed and Glare Filter with HS installed. Please pardon my ignorance, but what is FS & HS ?
The same table denoted a maintenance % integer determined by the tech level of the ship - can I ask if this % denotes the cost of the maintenance of the ship or how often the service interval will be?
Also in the next table down (in the same post) there are ship grade levels with, max speed, thrust and fuel cost columns, the fuel cost column - is that a modifier for how much the cost of fuel for that ship will be or is it a modifier for how much fuel it will burn (when injectors are used)?

Are there some earlier posts for this oxp where I could get info please as I am reluctant to try to learn all ship possibilities and options through adventure (I am guessing that this would take a very long time building up funds from scratch to learn each option through trial and error in order to find the options that are most likely to suit my preference).
I someone could direct me in the direction of another post that may help or give me a brief synopsis of the mechanics as they currently operate.

Many thanks in advance for your patience and any enlightenment you can offer.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Redspear »

I am having a bit of an issue in determining what is current and what is proposed.
It's been so long that I am also having this problem :oops:

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is FS & HS ?
Fuel Scoops & Heat Shielding.

The same table denoted a maintenance % integer determined by the tech level of the ship - can I ask if this % denotes the cost of the maintenance of the ship or how often the service interval will be?
Cost rather than frequency.

Also in the next table down (in the same post) there are ship grade levels with, max speed, thrust and fuel cost columns, the fuel cost column - is that a modifier for how much the cost of fuel for that ship will be or is it a modifier for how much fuel it will burn (when injectors are used)?
Fuel cost. I think injector burn rate is influenced elsewhere.

Are there some earlier posts for this oxp where I could get info please as I am reluctant to try to learn all ship possibilities and options through adventure (I am guessing that this would take a very long time building up funds from scratch to learn each option through trial and error in order to find the options that are most likely to suit my preference).
I someone could direct me in the direction of another post that may help or give me a brief synopsis of the mechanics as they currently operate.
With many of the charts that attempted to explain things no longer present (thanks photobucket :roll: ) things really aren't clear at present, my apologies. I likely won't get a chance to fix that this properly this week as I won't have access to the 0.5 files...

Many thanks in advance for your patience and any enlightenment you can offer.
Thanks for your patience. 0.6 should be clearer and a little more customisable while still retaining much of the ship choice wizard feel.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Damocles Edge »

Many thanks to Redspear for trying to clarify my muddled perception.
I have played and largely enjoyed so far the nuance that this oxp brings.
One thing I have found is that purchasing shield boosters for my transit class cobra mk3 (couldn't resist as a salvage gang were selling for a very reasonable price) resulted in my energy banks being completely emptied the second I launched - to the point were I could not even fire a laser.
My shields continued to constantly build and build, the shield booster failed after quite a short period of time and yet the shields continued to build (just before I docked they had reached just shy of 2200%).
At first I thought that perhaps the salvage gang had made something available to me that maybe I should not ne able to buy with my current ship config but then I noted that the main station was also offering shield boosters.
I tried to repair the shield boosters but found that again the same scenario unfolds as soon as I launched from station dock.
I took the liberty of taking some screen snap shots as events unfolded and also to show via F5 what equipment my ship had fitted at the time.
I have uploaded these images together with save game files to drop box. I will pm a link to you Redspear in the hope that they may be of some use to you.

Many thanks for your efforts and I look forward to the next incarnation of this oxp but will continue to play with the current and report any findings or experiences with the oxp that I think may be of some use (if that is okay with Redspear of course).

Peace & Apple Hoagies :)

*edit: also later added to drop box share folder latest.log and previous.log as it dawned on me after reading the reply from Redspear that a listing of what other oxp's I have installed would be useful :idea:
Last edited by Damocles Edge on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Redspear »

2,200% :shock: :lol:

That sounds like a serious compatibility issue.
I'll need to investigate further.

Thanks very much for your testing :)
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Redspear »

At long last, I've come to looking at this oxp again.

Although very fond of it, it was more the case of being happy with the idea than with the implementation. Version 1.90 of oolite has allowed the possibility of equipment override plists thereby removing some of the obstructions I was working under (major one being my lack of experience with javascript...) So after some thought and initial tests I'm confident I can do it much more justice.

So an excuse for a rethink and a clearer, less cluttered roadmap.


Ship Size

So scale is a mess in oolite as I suspect most of us are aware (at least when it comes to trying to make sense of it) but in sci fi and amongst vehicles generally I think it's a pretty common and important discriminator. So using the default shipset, here's the plan.

Image EDIT: Or, after noticing the Ship Mass table here [EliteWiki] Escort Deck ---> Image

Larger ships will have less proprtional thrust (more mass to move) and therefore take longer to reach top speed but then they'll also gain more cargo space from the cargo bay extension. Fuel will also be more costly with increasing size. More adjustments are planned but have yet to be implemented.


Ship Tech

Using the inservice dates from the original Elite manual, there's a fairly nice spread and implied progression. Both the categories themselves and their placement are my additions but they present a pleasing consistency, to my mind at least.

Image
EDIT: Altered to display an increasing rate of advancement as well as to leave some room for the likes of constrictors, interceptors and even the formidable boa mk II...

Increasing tech level will grant superior injector burn rate, sun glare reduction and equipment options but at the cost of more expensive maintenance. So higher tech is definitely desirable but also more expensive.


Ship Grade

The best and the worst thing about this oxp... the implementation of this has caused all kinds of trouble and compromise up until now.

The other two categories are supposed to be 'set in stone' for each ship but this one can be changed via purchasing a 'refit'. I wanted a more 'consistent' model and so looked again at how to approach this.

Image

Remember, this category is the one that can be changed, so the ship examples given are ones either canonically operating within that area or actually doing so within the game. Their position within the venn diagram represnts the usefulness of each of the three properties (rather than each ship's inherant suitability) to that particular role. The civilian grade (being in the centre) has a mix of everything rather than the best of everything.

So we have the mamba developed from a racing ship, the navy asp, the moray med-ship, the worm miner etc. etc.

The categories (or 'grades') are mostly self-explanatory I think but perhaps 'industrial' and 'service' could do with an explanation.

Industrial in terms of what's already within the game would be the mining ships but could also be imagined as similarly industrial work within more hazardous areas - thus the usefulness of good shields.

Service would be represented in game by the station to planet traffic. So cargo has some importance here as similar to transit vessels their function is to supply. The chief difference between the two being that the transit vessels are likely to be traders and the service vessels more likely to be ferrying passengers or essential, operational supplies. So it's less important how many service vessels are used but more important that they actually arrive (losing a ferryload of public passengers makes for terrible press). For that reason, shields are more important than they would be to a trader although this grade of ship is actually the slowest of them all (represented as being directly opposite the performance zone of the speed circle).

Speed will grant higher injector speeds.
Shields will grant a shield bonus (or malus).
Capacity will grant more cargo space (the transit grade fitting requiring the least ammount of space).

There are further planned (but not yet tested) to be a set of dynamic tensions to encourage choice rather than just enforce exclusivity.
These planned tensions are:
  • between cargo space used and top speed (adjusted for size)
  • between cargo space and equipment installed (standardised for all ships)
  • between equipment installed and top speed (adjusted by tech)
So (crudely) less stuff = more speed.

Potentially a nice bonus for the beginner who can't afford to fill up a hold with the good stuff and food for though for those who can. Rather than just dropping the cargo capacity and increasing the speed it's about strategy and choice.

Not to everyone's taste I'm sure but the art is in the balancing. So if a player-python with only a half full cargo bay runs faster than the standard 0.2LM then I think many would find it more fun to play. For example you could take that 100TC contract but could you also afford the speed hit while going through those dangerous systems en route?
Last edited by Redspear on Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Cholmondely »

It looks impressive, Sir!
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by Redspear »

Cholmondely wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:52 am
It looks impressive, Sir!
Thanks. It's coming along, slowly but without issue.

Meanwhile I've updated the previous post (preferable to multiple, confusing instances) and there's now the beginnings of a ship nomenclature system based on size.

Names are pretty easy to pick holes in because some of them have multiple meanings (e.g. cruiser) and also we're (...or at least I'm) reappropriating names here for things that have never really existed.

I tried to use the original source material as my guide. So, for example:
  • Worm Landing Craft
  • Sidewinder Scout Ship
  • Python Cruiser
  • Anaconda Freighter
There's also the Asp Explorer from... that other game.

It's not just size that determines a ship's name of course but I think these do a petty good job. All of the clippers are fast for their size, the scouts relatively nimble, the explorers tough with good equipment options and so on. Some individual cases might seem a bit odd but I think I've got that covered with what's to come.

True, there's already a python cruiser but that's based on the one pictured in the elite manual which, it is much easier to argue I think, was the same ship as the 'standard' python. Think not? Let's thrash it out :wink:

There are potentially some other oxp clashes too but just like the naming systems for real ships, not all of them are entirely consistent.
That's it for now.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by commander_STyx2909 »

Not 1.90 compatible.

Deprecated world.plist names.
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Re: Equipment by Ship Class v0.5 oxp

Post by another_commander »

Hi, there is a known issue with 1.90 and this OXP, please check http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20753 for solutions.

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