[RELEASE] High Poly Classic Modpack V1.01 - 12/09/2014

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

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Zireael
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Zireael »

Point number one: the design is not something they came up with themselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_torus

Point number two: the number of station variants in Elite/Frontier games: http://www.filecore.net/arcelite/files/ ... l#Stations

Point number three would be a pic of the wheel station mentioned above, but I can't find it... :(


EDIT: An example station would be Angus Manwaring in Eta Cassiopeia (FFE)

EDIT EDIT: Managed to find a pic: Image

Point number four: [wiki]Torus_station[/wiki] OXP
Last edited by Zireael on Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Cody »

As I said, you're the expert! I won't even bother to correct you!

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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Zireael »

Cody wrote:As I said, you're the expert! I won't even bother to correct you!
Me, an expert? Far be it from me! I just have a bit of google-fu and an unending fascination for both Elite and Frontier, even though the latter's Newtonian physics are fiendishly difficult for me!

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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Thargoid »

Wheel-based stations go back at least a century, if not more so. See here (wikipedia) for some history and examples. I have some memories also of one in the 2001 movie (which predates all the games discussed), but don't take that for gospel as I've not seen that movie in a long while.

It's more the specific design, and as noted what Dertien said should be more than reasonable for a basis. But IANALE... :twisted:

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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Redspear »

maik wrote:Sounds reasonable
Agreed.

No expert in legal matters here but we have oxps that take direct and obvious inspiration from Star Wars, Star Trek, BS Galactica et.al. We've even had an earlier one that took inspiration from one of the new E:D designs that (curiously) didn't seem to provoke the same reaction...

If the worry is that Oolite will be seen as a competitor to the fledgling E:D game (in the sense of reducing number of buyers) and that we should seek to distance it from E:D, then shouldn't the whole oxz system raise alarm bells (mods now more directly linked to the core game)?
Do we really wish to start censoring the oxz list? I would hope that such a road is to be avoided...

I suspect that companies are well aware that being seen to clamp down on non-profit (and much lower spec) projects such this one would be bad publicity among what is potentially a target rich audience...

BTW, really nice work Dertien (love that escape pod :D ) and thanks for sharing it.
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by dertien »

Yes Redspear, my point exactly... if we are going to start censoring oxps and people creating addons for Oolite, what is the point of having a moddable platform like Oolite in the first place.

I think I have demonstrated (with my view of a Cobra Mk3) that my intention is not to remodel all the ships from ED using their blueprints and screenshots that were released on the web, (since I like mine better :D) to create an Oolite-clone of ED. What I would like to see though is the addition of a very nicely modeled circular orbital station. Rest assured that credit from where the idea was taken will be in the readme. Oolite and ED are very different games (ED is much more simulator than Oolite) and are no competitors of each other, although they share the same basic characteristics and building blocks. However, Oolite's advantage compared to ED is the ability to load your own modded content.

Let's please keep it that way...

There are enough scaremongers in the world already.

Like I said earlier, if it comes to it that ED devs/lawyers don't want this station to be released, they will probably find it and initially, politely ask to remove it; before they will threaten with legal action. And before anyone sais so, no I am no expert in legal matters, but if you reply in a reasonable fashion whether it be with lawyers or not, you will usually come out unharmed if you have done nothing wrong; which is obviously the case here.

Glad you like the design, this is probably the most detailed Cobbie I have ever modeled.

However what I would like to hear is that there would be ways to make that great station look even better... Ideas please ?
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Redspear »

Read your post dertien and then noticed your sig at the bottom of it...

That's got to work in your favour :lol:
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by dertien »

hehe, yeah actually it's more like 250 Pounds since a month or so. But I stopped playing ED and will continue do to so until they come up with a freeroam offline version. I am not that very keen on multiplayer right now since there are really no safe-zones even around the stations and getting killed is really easy but making money is real hard. I would like to get used to the controls before I play online against real people.

Being an Alpha backer has its advantages though, like reduced costs for ships when you die etc..

As for the Orbis, I haven't even seen the station myself ingame, just drew it using numerous screenshots and dev videos on youtube.

It really is a piece of art, so why deny it to the Ooliteiens ?
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by pagroove »

Maybe slightly alter the form and name just to be sure? (add a third ring or something?).
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by dertien »

What I could do to make it look different, and just as good is that the spiky things at the bottom could be split in two and opened up (like a beak of a bird that is wide open) which would then be the solar panels. Another option is to change the triangular container things and change the shape to hexes. Three rings would be overkill IMHO; but I could add some solar panels again in Hex form to the bottom of the ball, and change the shape of the ball at the rear to be more like elongated liquid gas containers, like the ones you find on trains.

We'll see, its WIP and anything goes at the moment, and thx for the comment Pagroove. :)
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Diziet Sma »

The suggested changes may well be a good idea.. while IANAL either, my brother does have to keep a weather eye on intellectual property laws in his business, and he has sometimes had to explain to clients who want something copied, that there is a legal concept known as "legal appropriation", whereby if a design is changed by a certain minimum percentage, it will not be considered a breach of copyright. While this itself is a subject of constant legal review and debate, he usually recommends that they alter their design by at least 10% from the original before he will even consider making it for them.
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Zireael »

dertien wrote:What I could do to make it look different, and just as good is that the spiky things at the bottom could be split in two and opened up (like a beak of a bird that is wide open) which would then be the solar panels. Another option is to change the triangular container things and change the shape to hexes. Three rings would be overkill IMHO; but I could add some solar panels again in Hex form to the bottom of the ball, and change the shape of the ball at the rear to be more like elongated liquid gas containers, like the ones you find on trains.

We'll see, its WIP and anything goes at the moment, and thx for the comment Pagroove. :)
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Disembodied »

IANAL either, but one thing worth bearing in mind: what is or is not legal - especially with regard to something as hard to define as intellectual property - is something which, eventually, is decided in court, after numerous appeals. Look at the pantomime of Apple v. Samsung. Now, if you are Apple, or Samsung, or some other global behemoth, you can factor in a few hundred million in annual legal costs as part of your strategy to make things awkward for your competitors (and to prevent your product line being gazumped by some smartass startup with a bright idea that threatens to kick you in the corporate knackers - which doesn't always work, cf. Dyson v. Hoover, although this did take more than 20 years to sort out): this is known as "the free market".

I don't think that Frontier Developments see Oolite as any sort of threat: in fact, I think that David Braben probably sees us for what we are, a homage to Elite, which has had only a positive effect on keeping interest in the game alive, and one that's now providing a free advert for E:D. As long as we are scrupulously noncommercial, I don't think we have anything to worry about. Making a space-station model inspired by a station type from E:D, to include, for free, in a noncommercial game, is probably fine, too. And tweaking it to make it into e.g. one more type of torus station is sensible.

Basically, whether something is legal or not doesn't matter. If a great big Cease and Desist falls on us out of the sky, what will happen is that Oolite will Cease and Desist, because such is the way of the world. Legal and illegal, right and wrong don't enter into it: money talks, and we ain't got none. It's not likely to happen, and I think that any unreasonable (for an indeterminate value of unreasonable) attempt by FD to slap Oolite down would generate a small amount of bad publicity; but it always remains a possibility.

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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by dertien »

Disembodied wrote:IANAL either, but one thing worth bearing in mind: what is or is not legal - especially with regard to something as hard to define as intellectual property - is something which, eventually, is decided in court, after numerous appeals. Look at the pantomime of Apple v. Samsung. Now, if you are Apple, or Samsung, or some other global behemoth, you can factor in a few hundred million in annual legal costs as part of your strategy to make things awkward for your competitors (and to prevent your product line being gazumped by some smartass startup with a bright idea that threatens to kick you in the corporate knackers - which doesn't always work, cf. Dyson v. Hoover, although this did take more than 20 years to sort out): this is known as "the free market".

I don't think that Frontier Developments see Oolite as any sort of threat: in fact, I think that David Braben probably sees us for what we are, a homage to Elite, which has had only a positive effect on keeping interest in the game alive, and one that's now providing a free advert for E:D. As long as we are scrupulously noncommercial, I don't think we have anything to worry about. Making a space-station model inspired by a station type from E:D, to include, for free, in a noncommercial game, is probably fine, too. And tweaking it to make it into e.g. one more type of torus station is sensible.

Basically, whether something is legal or not doesn't matter. If a great big Cease and Desist falls on us out of the sky, what will happen is that Oolite will Cease and Desist, because such is the way of the world. Legal and illegal, right and wrong don't enter into it: money talks, and we ain't got none. It's not likely to happen, and I think that any unreasonable (for an indeterminate value of unreasonable) attempt by FD to slap Oolite down would generate a small amount of bad publicity; but it always remains a possibility.

Amen to that !
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Re: [WIP] New station and Cobra Mk3 extreme detail

Post by Diziet Sma »

I'd say that's all a pretty fair wrap-up of things..

Dertien, I look forward to seeing your new station and ships in-game.. I only hope my poor laptop can cope with it! :lol:
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