Continuation of OXP versions?

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

Moderators: another_commander, winston

Which formats do we go forward with?

.OXZ only for new-feature expansions, with .OXP only for backwardly compatible ones?
12
75%
.OXZ and .OXP format for ongoing new and updated expansions?
4
25%
Some other words of wisdom (post below)?
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 16

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Thargoid
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Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Thargoid »

Now that we have the most welcome release of v1.80, I wanted to open a small discussion within the community, namely about "original" OXP versions. With the introduction of OXZs, is there any point to maintain downloadable versions of the expansions in the old OXP format too?

As OXZs can be downloaded either via the in-game manager or still manually downloaded and installed, is there any point in keeping separate .oxp folder versions too? I know it's not too hard to make one from the other, but it seems more work and another set of files to host somewhere. So is there any point anyone can see to have .oxp files which use features of Oolite 1.80, or shall we as a community now freeze the .oxp format and fully switch to .oxz for expansions which are not compatible with 1.77.1?

Your thoughts and opinions are invited... :twisted:

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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Smivs »

My current plan is to convert most but not all of my OXPs. The converted OXZs will be maintained and updated as usual, but those OXPs not converted will remain available as OXPs.
These will be from the current download location, but are unlikely to be updated or maintained. These are mainly old ones which are no longer needed in v1.80 such as Cloak Repair, and some I feel are unsuitable for inclusion in the Expansions Manager. I view the Manager as bringing the OXPs more into the core game in a sense, and therefore I am reluctant to make anything too silly available via it.
They will remain available for anyone not using v1.80 for whatever reason, and a couple (Jellybaby Dispenser for example) are for those who really want them either for use in game or simply to download to see how they work and/or use them for inspiration.
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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by ClymAngus »

I think one of the golden features of this game is the addability. Any new system needs to be properly documented with examples so an idiot can generate new content and past it up in an accessable and accurate format and lodge it in an accessable place.

Efficiency is one thing but we must never forget that the lego aspect fires this game.

Thargoid was nice enough to convert some of my better works. I will need to host "rise of the kirin" somewhere more accessable now (really should have done that from the off). I will be keeping the oxp's around but will duplicate off site host, add and reference the oxz's more frequently (time for a bit of a spring clean!)

Looking to the future is important but so to is legacy, if only from an educational point of view.

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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Neelix »

The OXP versions are much less fiddly to tweak... I've been pondering how best to apply tweaks to OXZ's and the easiest method I can think of is to convert them back to OXPs first...

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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Smivs »

Neelix is of course correct, tweaking OXZs has an extra layer of work due to the fact that they are compressed files. This is the price we pay for the overall convenience of the Expansions Manager, and considering the raft of advantages the manager brings, it is a small and I think acceptable price.
For what it's worth when converting my OXPs to OXZ (and making new ones) I work with a development OXP version (in AddOns), and only when finished and tested do I make the final OXZ.
This seems to work very well, and the extra workload is minimal, so I have to say I am quite happy with this, and appreciate the flexibility having an AddOns folder gives me.
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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by spara »

It's much simpler to maintain just one format. I don't see any reason for using zipped oxps anymore. The combination wiki+expansion manager is brilliant, can't be much more simpler.

There's just one extra step when tweaking oxps, you need to create the oxp-folder. Not really a reason to maintain two versions.

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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by spud42 »

a couple of thoughts..

who is going to convert OXP's of authors who are no longer active? i seem to recall that there were approx 700 OXP's? some may not be maintained but used by many players.

what about older machines that cant use 1.80 but work fine with 1.77.1 ? possibly without shaders as well.

i plan to keep Oolite 1.77.1 on my acer netbook for when i am traveling using about 30 OXP's at the moment.

would it be difficult to make a utility to automatically unzip OXZ's to the addons folder with the correct folder being created with the correct format?
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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Smivs »

As far as I know, Oolite will always contain an AddOns folder, so old OXPs will be able to be used as before. The main problem as you suggest is those which are no longer actively supported, but as Oolite develops they would be a potential problem anyway, even without the manager.
Providing the licence permits, anybody could take them over and develop them. Un-licenced OXPs are basically doomed in the long run irespective of the OXP handling changes in Oolite.

I don't know about older machines, but understand that v1.80 will work on most computers. Honestly, if it's that old and underpowered, maybe it has had its day, although I do understand that not everybody can just go out and buy a new computer. One option might be a more modern and leaner O/S - if the computer is that old, the O/S probably is as well.

Some boffin may be able to make an 'un-zipper and re-formatter', but all that needs doing to make an OXZ into an OXP is to unzip it and contain the files in a folder with a .oxp extension. It's pretty simple stuff.
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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by spud42 »

oh i quite understand i was just playing devils advocate. i have win7 running on my netbook but its only a single core atom..i have also downloaded debian wheezy with xfce as it will probably be the OS on the new Pyra. Its only running from a USB stick at the moment but it looks fine to install as a dual boot. running Oolite linux of course... must try it with 1.80 this weekend.
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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Norby »

spara wrote:when tweaking oxps, you need to...
... use a file manager which can step into a zip file by enter key and edit a text file within by F4, like Krusader (my favorite in Linux, available for windows within KDE) or Total Commander (looks like a pilot's name :)).
spara wrote:There's just one extra step
Yes, an one-time extra step: install the proper tool. ;)

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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Norby »

spud42 wrote:who is going to convert OXP's of authors who are no longer active?
Anybody can help, I converted dozens what I like.
spud42 wrote:what about older machines that cant use 1.80 but work fine with 1.77.1
I do not think there is any if you set the graphic detail enough low and use the same OXPs and no more, which is hard to resist. ;)

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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by spara »

Norby wrote:
spara wrote:when tweaking oxps, you need to...
... use a file manager which can step into a zip file by enter key and edit a text file within by F4, like Krusader (my favorite in Linux, available for windows within KDE) or Total Commander (looks like a pilot's name :)).
spara wrote:There's just one extra step
Yes, an one-time extra step: install the proper tool. ;)
Assuming you want to bloat your system with KDE tools. :wink: *Ducks*

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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Cody »

Onwards and upwards - OXZs for the future!
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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Smivs »

Cody wrote:Onwards and upwards - OXZs for the future!
Indeed, and as I type this I see we are only three short of the magic 200 mark :)
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Re: Continuation of OXP versions?

Post by Diziet Sma »

spara wrote:
Norby wrote:
spara wrote:when tweaking oxps, you need to...
... use a file manager which can step into a zip file by enter key and edit a text file within by F4, like Krusader (my favorite in Linux, available for windows within KDE) or Total Commander (looks like a pilot's name :)).
spara wrote:There's just one extra step
Yes, an one-time extra step: install the proper tool. ;)
Assuming you want to bloat your system with KDE tools. :wink: *Ducks*
Hehe.. the Archive Manager and Gedit in Gnome/Cinnamon do exactly the same thing.. without the legendary KDE bloat. :wink:
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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