[WIP] freighttrain

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JeX
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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by JeX »

This is probably one of the most interesting yet logically flawed OXPs ship additions I have yet to see :lol:

Looking at one just makes it itch in my trigger finger to blow up the middle one and see the rest of the wagons come loose. Oh, and then be spewed with cargo presents :D

It's really awesome but just makes so little sense with having so many weak spots. Maybe you can come up with an in game explanation for why these types of freighters suddenly became popular?

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by CommRLock78 »

JeX wrote:This is probably one of the most interesting yet logically flawed OXPs ship additions I have yet to see :lol:

Looking at one just makes it itch in my trigger finger to blow up the middle one and see the rest of the wagons come loose. Oh, and then be spewed with cargo presents :D

It's really awesome but just makes so little sense with having so many weak spots. Maybe you can come up with an in game explanation for why these types of freighters suddenly became popular?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: - that's what I'm saying - way too much of a temptation LOLOLOL. I'm definitely going to give it a shot though <downloaded> :).
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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Commander McLane »

JeX wrote:Looking at one just makes it itch in my trigger finger to blow up the middle one and see the rest of the wagons come loose.
I was thinking about this. In case one of the middle wagons gets destroyed, the following one should attach itself to the next one before itself, thereby closing the gap. That should be possible.

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by GGShinobi »

Commander McLane wrote:
JeX wrote:Looking at one just makes it itch in my trigger finger to blow up the middle one and see the rest of the wagons come loose.
I was thinking about this. In case one of the middle wagons gets destroyed, the following one should attach itself to the next one before itself, thereby closing the gap. That should be possible.
Yeah, this would be cool. And also cool would be if in rare cases a chain reaction occurs and all waggons blow up one by one :lol:
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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Rorschachhamster »

Huh! Some very good ideas, here. :D I don't know if I can get some of them to work with my limited grasp of scripting, but... :P I will look into it. :roll: (Dark side, indeed!)
I'm not quite sure about the realigning after one out of the middle has been shot, as the train is in full flee mode at this time (and should be!), but I though about writing a possibility for the freighttrain to try to "catch" lost wagons if the coast is clear again... Not the slightest idea how it could do that, anyhow... :lol: Hello, AI - scripting, I have no really grasp of your possibilites. 8)
What I'm working on atm is new models... with a traction engine with a more train like look (with a dash of tugboat) and wagons with frangible cargo containers, that hopefully will spawn cargo if shot... :wink: ... and the models will be without up orientation, so one proplem solved with a sledgehammer. :D

EDIT: Oh, and reagarding the in game explanation, propably they would only make sense in high population, relative secure systems. With capable escorts.
EDIT2: But I will only implement this at the final release. For shooting -oops- testing purposes... :twisted:

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Diziet Sma »

JeX wrote:It's really awesome but just makes so little sense with having so many weak spots. Maybe you can come up with an in game explanation for why these types of freighters suddenly became popular?
That's not hard.. the same explanation as for IRL freight-trains. Dirt-cheap bulk haulage. For example, suppose you wanted to move 100,000 tonnes of coal across the country by semi-trailer.. it would require 5,000 semis to move it all.. the cost in time, handling, wages, fuel and maintenance alone would be huge.

Yet the entire lot could be moved by just 5 typical trains, at a tremendous saving. Hell, in Australia, as a test, BHP once moved 82,000 tonnes of iron ore with a single train. Eight locos (spaced at intervals), 682 wagons, and just 1 driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LsuNWjRaAo

Even an Anaconda can only compare with a very small freight-train. The other Oolite ships aren't even in the running.
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Rorschachhamster »

Diziet Sma wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LsuNWjRaAo

Even an Anaconda can only compare with a very small freight-train. The other Oolite ships aren't even in the running.
Hah! Good point! And I couldn't watch the whole video because I had to go to catch my train... 5 min in. :shock: :D

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by JeX »

Diziet Sma wrote:
JeX wrote:It's really awesome but just makes so little sense with having so many weak spots. Maybe you can come up with an in game explanation for why these types of freighters suddenly became popular?
That's not hard.. the same explanation as for IRL freight-trains. Dirt-cheap bulk haulage. For example, suppose you wanted to move 100,000 tonnes of coal across the country by semi-trailer.. it would require 5,000 semis to move it all.. the cost in time, handling, wages, fuel and maintenance alone would be huge.

Yet the entire lot could be moved by just 5 typical trains, at a tremendous saving. Hell, in Australia, as a test, BHP once moved 82,000 tonnes of iron ore with a single train. Eight locos (spaced at intervals), 682 wagons, and just 1 driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LsuNWjRaAo

Even an Anaconda can only compare with a very small freight-train. The other Oolite ships aren't even in the running.
Ok, I will buy that to some extent. The reason why I don't quite buy the analogy is because of the piracy in Oolite which afaik is not really prevalent anywhere but Somalia atm. Second, a freight train in space has an awful lot of weak points (several joints that may break between wagons, no way of running if attacked, basically a giant q-bomb waiting to detonate) that one would not think would make it feasible to operate such a train.

What I do buy is the following explanation added on to yours:
These freight trains can carry so large amounts of cargo that no more than half a dozen trips can essentially make you a rich man, despite the vast amount of inherent risks included in the job. This has primarily attracted lonely cargo haulers that seemed to nurture on adrenaline fixes to either take the jobs as chauffeurs or simply build/buy their own brittle train rigs that are essentially death bombs waiting for someone to light the fuses.
Freight train have even been chauffeured by some of the most well-known and famous gamblers from across the galaxy to take on bets to make 5 consecutive freight train runs in a row without getting blown up or stolen.

Now queue the missions for also being able to take on such a well-paid mission of cargo hauling. But be careful. No insurance companies want to touch these freighters with a 10-foot pole, so if you get in trouble, you will have to pay it back in full, or maybe be so waist deep in debt that you have no other choice than to keep flying these for quite a while, a loong while.

Thanks Diziet, for inspiring me to come up with a more narrative explanation for these :)

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Rorschachhamster »

JeX wrote:
Diziet Sma wrote:
JeX wrote:It's really awesome but just makes so little sense with having so many weak spots. Maybe you can come up with an in game explanation for why these types of freighters suddenly became popular?
That's not hard.. the same explanation as for IRL freight-trains. Dirt-cheap bulk haulage. For example, suppose you wanted to move 100,000 tonnes of coal across the country by semi-trailer.. it would require 5,000 semis to move it all.. the cost in time, handling, wages, fuel and maintenance alone would be huge.

Yet the entire lot could be moved by just 5 typical trains, at a tremendous saving. Hell, in Australia, as a test, BHP once moved 82,000 tonnes of iron ore with a single train. Eight locos (spaced at intervals), 682 wagons, and just 1 driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LsuNWjRaAo

Even an Anaconda can only compare with a very small freight-train. The other Oolite ships aren't even in the running.
Ok, I will buy that to some extent. The reason why I don't quite buy the analogy is because of the piracy in Oolite which afaik is not really prevalent anywhere but Somalia atm. Second, a freight train in space has an awful lot of weak points (several joints that may break between wagons, no way of running if attacked, basically a giant q-bomb waiting to detonate) that one would not think would make it feasible to operate such a train.

What I do buy is the following explanation added on to yours:
These freight trains can carry so large amounts of cargo that no more than half a dozen trips can essentially make you a rich man, despite the vast amount of inherent risks included in the job. This has primarily attracted lonely cargo haulers that seemed to nurture on adrenaline fixes to either take the jobs as chauffeurs or simply build/buy their own brittle train rigs that are essentially death bombs waiting for someone to light the fuses.
Freight train have even been chauffeured by some of the most well-known and famous gamblers from across the galaxy to take on bets to make 5 consecutive freight train runs in a row without getting blown up or stolen.

Now queue the missions for also being able to take on such a well-paid mission of cargo hauling. But be careful. No insurance companies want to touch these freighters with a 10-foot pole, so if you get in trouble, you will have to pay it back in full, or maybe be so waist deep in debt that you have no other choice than to keep flying these for quite a while, a loong while.

Thanks Diziet, for inspiring me to come up with a more narrative explanation for these :)
Heh, great. 8)
Of course, most of them will be transporting mass products like textiles, food or minerals, wich are not very interesting loot for pirates with their limited cargo capability... :wink: (I wonder, if I could script it that pirates without python etc. support will ignore them? :wink: Oh man, the list grows :roll: :D )

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Rorschachhamster »

Two sneak peeks posted on my German gaming blog. I wanted to post them here, and I will post even better ones tomorrow, but I can't post them without reducing the size and I'm hitting the hay real soon... I had so many better pictures, but the GIMP collapsed before I could save them all. Maybe too many pictures at once... :oops: And with frangible containers as sub-entities. Made the framerate issues only worse... :oops: Can't help it.
Oh, and the fruitbat class escort ship with MT Sec slogan... 8) They prefer to call their modified crafts "flying fox".
He.

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Diziet Sma »

Nice little article.. (thank you, google-translate!)

Good looking escort ship you have there, sir! I love their motto! :)
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Walbrigg »

JeX wrote: Ok, I will buy that to some extent. The reason why I don't quite buy the analogy is because of the piracy in Oolite which afaik is not really prevalent anywhere but Somalia atm. Second, a freight train in space has an awful lot of weak points (several joints that may break between wagons, no way of running if attacked, basically a giant q-bomb waiting to detonate) that one would not think would make it feasible to operate such a train.
Actually, given piracy, the question is why all freight isn't moved like that, or, without the freighttrain, just in large convoys.

If it carries the same as ten freighters, then shipping the same cargo by freighter would probably involve in the region of 50 escort fighters. You could give the train 20-25 escort ships and still be saving expense. (If I saw one of these in the game, I would expect to see a serious protective escort).

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by GGShinobi »

Walbrigg wrote:
JeX wrote: Ok, I will buy that to some extent. The reason why I don't quite buy the analogy is because of the piracy in Oolite which afaik is not really prevalent anywhere but Somalia atm. Second, a freight train in space has an awful lot of weak points (several joints that may break between wagons, no way of running if attacked, basically a giant q-bomb waiting to detonate) that one would not think would make it feasible to operate such a train.
Actually, given piracy, the question is why all freight isn't moved like that, or, without the freighttrain, just in large convoys.

If it carries the same as ten freighters, then shipping the same cargo by freighter would probably involve in the region of 50 escort fighters. You could give the train 20-25 escort ships and still be saving expense. (If I saw one of these in the game, I would expect to see a serious protective escort).
You are right - but on the same time, you yourself :idea: are the answer (if you play Oolite) :wink: : There are many Jamesons out there who somehow got a ship and travel the stars with it for whatever reason they may have. And since they are flying anyway, they also try to make some money by trading. :mrgreen:

And those who made enough money to afford a big ship hire escorts, as can be seen in the game. If they earn even more money, eventually they will exchange their cockpit for a nice office desk on a safe planet and hire someone who flies their big ships for them. And some have earned even enough money to trade their big Anacondas in for a Freighttrain. :mrgreen:
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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Rorschachhamster »

Ok, here are the photos I made out of my sidescreen. :P
First the ones I postet yesterday on my blog.
Image
You see... well, almost nothing. The containers are frangible and atM filled with lots of food, textiles or minerals. Cheap mass products. In fact, the same container, orientationwise, means always the same goods, but I will give them a custom script soon...ish. First I have to delve into subentities a little more...
Image
Ok, here we have one of the "MT SEC" Flying Foxes. They are modified Fruitbats (I will rename them Fruit Bats, as wikipedia tells me that's the way they are spelled :oops: Oh, and the thing with the second exhaust at the end of the wing has been corrected already), and I will release that OXP independently, well, today probably. MT SEC is subsidiary of MASSTrans (see below). And conscripts ex-navy-pilots paid premium shares of the profit per freighttrain... Don't mess with'em! Gamingwise, they have a accuracy of 6.9 and there are four per freighttrain, atM. Should probably be more, even though they shot me down everytime I tried to mess with the train. :mrgreen: So much for piracy... :P Oh, and as they have no custom AI (yet?), they could be encountered anywhere as escorts... bad news for pirates.
Image
Isn't she a beauty? As I said a lot of train (I did a google search for "futuristic train" :wink:) and a little tug boat. The MASSTrans logo is lit. On the other side one of the letters is broken. I was SOOOO tempted, but it is not the first one... :D I'd really like to make this letter flicker, but that's... yeah, I have to look into that. Shaders and stuff...
Image
Bow your head before your master! :oops: And I probably should have taken this shots not in a system with a red sun. On the other hand, it looks a little bit like dawn... 8)

I'm a little flabbergasted, about how I can check if the AI is doing what it is supposed to do... :shock:
Oh, yes, and this one is a load on older computers. I don't know enough to look at the script and/or the models to make them less heavy. It works fine on mine, who was 7 years ago quite a nifty gaming machine... :|

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Re: [WIP] freighttrain

Post by Diziet Sma »

Nice looking loco! 8)
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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