Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple lasers!

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Wildeblood
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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Wildeblood » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Well, what I'd like to be able to do is fire a missile at a ship without them knowing. So my plan would be to magically instantiate* a drone nearby the victim and fire the missile at that instead, so the drone, rather than the intended victim, gets the playerFiredMissileAtYou** event and the victim is blissfully unaware of what's going on. But if the drone could be instantiated*** stationary, at a predicted intercept, rather than chasing the victim, so the missile flew a straight course, that would be much cooler. The missile firing experience would look less frantic, more torpedo-like, and tend to enhance the naval metaphor and look less like air-to-air dogfighting.

Maybe what I really want is a missile that can just be fired in a straight line, without needing the player to acquire the target first. A mine-missile, launch it as a mine, and as soon as it's launched it behaves like an unguided missile. Hmm...

* Instantiate is one of my favourite words.
** Whatever.
*** Really, right up there with juxtapose, another favourite.

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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Okti » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:15 pm

Wildeblood wrote:Maybe what I really want is a missile that can just be fired in a straight line, without needing the player to acquire the target first. A mine-missile, launch it as a mine, and as soon as it's launched it behaves like an unguided missile. Hmm...
Have a look at Here. This oxp is not released but one of the available ones behave like what you imagined.
My OXP's
And Latest Mission Coyote's Run

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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Thargoid » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:47 pm

The probe missile in Armoury does exactly that (fire without a target and fly straight ahead), although that's not designed as an offensive weapon (although it could be modified to such).

Another method (untested) along similar lines could just be to do the drone thing momentarily and then change the missiles target after firing (once it has been launched). Not sure if that would trigger the true target ship js event or not.

With regard to the greater topic, I can see two issues with the proposal:

  • The lasers fired by the sub-entities to make the multiple laser won't be "owned" by the player. Not a problem for general NPC existence-adjustment, but for things like mission (where this.shipDied is used to see who made the kill for example) it will screw things as up as the killer entity won't be the player. Same problem exists with things like my Guardian Drones and Hired Guns, and can only partially be worked around.
  • If the player ship has subentities, those also go towards defining the bounding box for collisions etc. The target drone and also the firing drones will need to be carefully positioned and instantly removed again after serving their purpose otherwise they'll collide with the player ship entity. And even using a frame callback it doesn't work to keep repositioning them a fixed distance from the player entity, at least if using fuel injectors or torus drive.
It's an intriguing concept, but one that will still have some limitations to be worked around.[/color]

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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Cmdr. Maegil » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:44 pm

Thargoid wrote:With regard to the greater topic, I can see two issues with the proposal:

  • The lasers fired by the sub-entities to make the multiple laser won't be "owned" by the player. Not a problem for general NPC existence-adjustment, but for things like mission (where this.shipDied is used to see who made the kill for example) it will screw things as up as the killer entity won't be the player. Same problem exists with things like my Guardian Drones and Hired Guns, and can only partially be worked around.[/color]
I'll test it again.
I once took a buoy, gave it a bounty and made a quick test script - but I can't remember what for, it might have been completely unrelated... :?
I'll use the following code in it and attack it with a combat drone, it should be enough to prove or disprove the theory.

Code: Select all

{this.shipBeingAttacked = function(whom)
{
player.consoleMessage("Shot by" + whom + ".", 6);
};
this.shipDied = function(who)
{
player.consoleMessage("Killed by" + who + ".", 6);
};
}
Thargoid wrote:[*]If the player ship has subentities, those also go towards defining the bounding box for collisions etc. The target drone and also the firing drones will need to be carefully positioned and instantly removed again after serving their purpose otherwise they'll collide with the player ship entity. And even using a frame callback it doesn't work to keep repositioning them a fixed distance from the player entity, at least if using fuel injectors or torus drive.[/list][/color]
If I understood correctly, the subents' collision radius is ignored for the players' own missiles... That may not be true for their subents and submunitions, though.

For the most part, the mines don't need to be in the firing positions - most can be put just behind the ship, out of (collision) harm's way as long as their laser and missile firing positions are in place. In any case, now you know why I recently asked about invisible singularities...
Others that really should be fixed in certain positions would be a forward laser controller (for their off-centred scanning) and the turret scanners (though neither needs to kiss the hull), and the laser turrets - I guess they'll need some slack in the back of the pit to compensate for the speed...

Thargoid wrote:It's an intriguing concept, but one that will still have some limitations to be worked around.
It needs work, of course, but I think the concept is sound.

If anyone wishes to fool about with them silly ideas, please go right ahead (but don't be surprised when I nick your code :wink: )
You know those who, having been mugged and stabbed, fired, dog run over, house burned down, wife eloped with best friend, daughters becoming prostitutes and their countries invaded - still say that "all is well"?
I'm obviously not one of them.

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Re: How does damage on frangible subents affect the main ent

Post by CommonSenseOTB » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:31 am

Ahruman wrote:Don’t you have a boat to deliver or something rather than violating my poor, sensitive game? ;-)
LMAO and passing out!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cmdr. Maegil wrote:If anyone wishes to fool about with them silly ideas, please go right ahead (but don't be surprised when I nick your code :wink: )
If you wish to fool about with, as you say, those silly ideas, please go right ahead. I want to see what you, yourself can come up with. On your own. I want you to succeed man, on your own merits, so just go for it! 8)
Take an idea from one person and twist or modify it in a different way as a return suggestion so another person can see a part of it that can apply to the oxp they are working on.


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Re: How does damage on frangible subents affect the main ent

Post by Cmdr. Maegil » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:03 am

CommonSenseOTB wrote:
Ahruman wrote:Don’t you have a boat to deliver or something rather than violating my poor, sensitive game? ;-)
LMAO and passing out!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That was also my reaction... I took Ahruman's reply as a grudging congratulation.
CommonSenseOTB wrote:
Cmdr. Maegil wrote:If anyone wishes to fool about with them silly ideas, please go right ahead (but don't be surprised when I nick your code :wink: )
If you wish to fool about with, as you say, those silly ideas, please go right ahead. I want to see what you, yourself can come up with. On your own. I want you to succeed man, on your own merits, so just go for it! 8)
And this, I take offence as sarcasm, and ask you not to lower the level in the Friendliest Board.
You know perfectly well that I'm learning on the fly, and that to a beginner even a simple project is difficult. I will use the work of others, and I will ask for their help.
As for your own work, fear not - although I greatly admire your OXPs, I shan't (knowingly) use any code of yours even as reference.

As pledged.

[EDIT: for clarification, this involves an old, unrelated, and supposedly closed personal quarrel. I've PM'd him, so please disregard these two posts.]
Last edited by Cmdr. Maegil on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
You know those who, having been mugged and stabbed, fired, dog run over, house burned down, wife eloped with best friend, daughters becoming prostitutes and their countries invaded - still say that "all is well"?
I'm obviously not one of them.

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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Killer Wolf » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:08 am

:-/

gotta disagree w/ that

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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by CommonSenseOTB » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:38 am

@KW-I would have to disagree as well.

@Cmdr. Maegil:

I took Ahruman's comment as sarcasm at your ideas, now and previously, to unbalance the game. That's what caused me to laugh my ass off. That's all. The part about the ship just sent me over the edge. I'm sorry. That Ahruman's a funny guy.

And I was not being sarcastic, I want you to succeed, at something. Anything. Just one little oxp where you yourself take one idea you have and make it happen. I want you to succeed even more than you do I suspect. Nothing over the top just Cmdr. Maegil's first oxp. One little idea you have that doesn't step on anyone's toes. Maybe a piece of equipment no one has tried or a slightly modified ship or some kind of ambience for the ooniverse, etc. You expect to run a marathon and win whilst still remaining seated. Can't be done. Make a first step. Then another. Then a marathon. Then a marathon to finish. Then a marathon to place near the top.

Take mandoman. There's a true champion. He keeps trying and trying and trying......and.......succeeding! It just makes me so happy to see what he has become and proud even, make's me happy that I helped him way back when he really needed it and the self-confidence that comes from trying and finally getting it himself.

Now here is where I have a slight issue and it is not specifically aimed at you. When a person wants something to be created and wants others to do it, and all the code as well. And gets offended when the whole community doesn't just drop what they are doing and come running to volunteer. And to top it off the person has no intention to learn and produce any unique code of thier own but consistantly wants others to do thier bidding. Who are we anyway? Just servants and lackeys with coding that have nothing better to do than destabilize the game completely? at the expense of thier own trivial and unimportant projects that consume most of thier free time? that gets shorter to the extent that even they don't have the time to accomplish the projects they want to do and are passionate about?

And don't send me PM's. Everything I have to say can be said openly in this forum and has been. I don't have a quarrel with you. If you think I have a quarrel with you because I don't want to see my first oxp, shields and equalizers, destroyed and made into something to destabilize the game then I guess that illustrates my point very nicely.

Please, please, please to infinity plus one, just try and do one little oxp on your own, one small step on your road to being an oxper. You will feel incredible and we all will be sooooo happy for you and us, really! And then, eventually, you will be able to make your dreams come true.

Keep your chin up Cmdr. Maegil and give it a shot.

Why don't you start with an oxp you wanted to have others make for you a long time ago. I think it was some kind of an amphibious drop ship or something. Sounds like it might be a good place to start on your road to becoming an oxper.

And by the way, my road to becoming an oxper started 15 months ago knowing nothing about scripting javascript and only crude knowledge of shipdata and shipyard property lists. Small steps over time can accomplish anything. Try it and see.
Take an idea from one person and twist or modify it in a different way as a return suggestion so another person can see a part of it that can apply to the oxp they are working on.


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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Lestradae » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:41 am

Is this starting again?

And no, I'm not talking about Maegil :(

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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Cmdr. Maegil » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:30 pm

I also wish no personal quarrels, and have no use for enemies - it's better to just live and let live...
CommonSenseOTB wrote:Now here is where I have a slight issue and it is not specifically aimed at you. When a person wants something to be created and wants others to do it, and all the code as well. And gets offended when the whole community doesn't just drop what they are doing and come running to volunteer. And to top it off the person has no intention to learn and produce any unique code of thier own but consistantly wants others to do thier bidding.
I once did try to get others to do that for me, but quickly got the message - I wouldn't shame myself like that again! :oops: Which is not to say that if someone does use my ideas, I won't avail myself to their code... :lol:
But, if this were specifically aimed at me, I'd answer with a quote from my project disclosure post and ask you if this is the behaviour of someone trying to push work onto others:
The truth is, I've been behaving somewhat underhandedly, trying to squeeze my doubts on other threads and only making oblique questions. In any case, my ideas had matured enough that I was already trying to get some work done for show before starting to ask for more specific help.
Otherwise, I've tampered with several OXPs on my addons folder (and not just the shipdatas either), and - surprise, surprise - some were still working in the end, and every now and then even doing what I wanted. :D
One of these is the Kirin, which I am currently flying; but what I now have in mind is currently beyond my abilities, as needs to be rewritten from scratch. I started with the autopilot function, which seems the most accessible, and intend to develop (both the OXP and my skills) from there - when I need help or advice, I will ask, which isn't the same as laying back and telling others to do it for me.

As for the game balance, I already explained my views at length elsewhere, but they can be resumed as "it's a sandbox universe" and "it's your game"; in any case, almost every ship, extra station or equipment OXP will change the balance, so this ends up being a moot point.


*@Thargoid: %&$# :evil: The combat drones I was using in the test are actually spawned by the equipment, not launched!!! :oops: :lol:
You know those who, having been mugged and stabbed, fired, dog run over, house burned down, wife eloped with best friend, daughters becoming prostitutes and their countries invaded - still say that "all is well"?
I'm obviously not one of them.

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Re: Workarounds for six old demands - including multiple las

Post by Thargoid » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:42 pm

Yep - otherwise you'd have to give them a target manually (if they were a missile). But mine find their own, and are mine-launched. Same for the captured thargons.

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