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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:23 am 
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A bit out of most people's price-range, but I think you'd like this
It's a beaut, no doubt about it; and that's the finish I was lusting after, though maybe with a smaller mesh pattern. Despite it's many admirable qualities, however, the Contractor isn't the ship for me. I'm wanting a 20t (or thereabouts) cargo hold for scooping up the mortal remains of any bad guys I'm fluky enough to zap.
Quote:
and you can fit ExtraFuelTanks to it as well :wink: </ attempt to bring thread back on-topic> :lol:
Good luck with that mission. :D

Actually, I have a request -- and it's on-topic, astonishingly. Having fitted your 'big' tank (and what a smashing bit of kit it is too, though way too pricey still) I notice it doesn't fill automatically when sun-skimming, the way the ship's main tank does. That would be a really useful feature, IMO. An easy retrofit at the shipyards, too, I would have thought -- just a bit more piping and an extra valve or two.

My request, then, is this: please consider this mod should you decide to upgrade your tank in the future. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:36 am 
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Quote:
Actually, I have a request -- and it's on-topic, astonishingly. Having fitted your 'big' tank (and what a smashing bit of kit it is too, though way too pricey still) I notice it doesn't fill automatically when sun-skimming, the way the ship's main tank does. That would be a really useful feature, IMO. An easy retrofit at the shipyards, too, I would have thought -- just a bit more piping and an extra valve or two.

My request, then, is this: please consider this mod should you decide to upgrade your tank in the future. Thanks.
Reminds me of the first bit of script I wrote when I was just learning javascript a few years ago. For use with oolite 1.74.2 I believe. Worked in a sort of analogy way like the way I wrote the shield equalizer. The tank would automatically put overflow from the main tank into the reserve tank while sunskimming. And automatically fill the main tank from the reserve as the main level drops. The first time I used it the fuel would slosh around between the tanks and needed lots of tweaking and at the time I didn't know squat about scripting so the main tank would generally stay at a max of about 6.9ly capacity. a real Macguyver job that was, haha! Boy that brings back memories... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:21 am 
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Having fitted your 'big' tank...I notice it doesn't fill automatically when sun-skimming, the way the ship's main tank does. That would be a really useful feature, IMO. An easy retrofit at the shipyards, too, I would have thought -- just a bit more piping and an extra valve or two.
My request, then, is this: please consider this mod should you decide to upgrade your tank in the future. Thanks.
<Back-story handwavium>
The tanks have to be very small to actually fit into ships. To achieve the capacity required the tanks have to be filled with Liquified Quirium Gas, under pressure, unlike the main tank which is filled with normal Quirium. This is why the re-fill is more expensive than regular fuel. Sunskimming takes on normal Quirium, and therefor to fill the extra tanks this would ned to be pressurised and liquified first, and your ship will not have the equipment necessary to do this.
</ handwavium>

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:03 am 
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The tank would automatically put overflow from the main tank into the reserve tank while sunskimming. And automatically fill the main tank from the reserve as the main level drops.
And, as any motorcyclist or two-fuel-tank car owner will tell you, having a reserve tank makes you careless and MORE likely to run out of fuel.



Anyway, what this thinking leads to is unlimited fuel tanks, in which case the 7 LY limit and the need to buy fuel go away, with them the encounters with Vipers and pirates, and all that is left is just trading. In which case, you may as well just edit the Credits in the saved game file and go and play something else. Part of the idea is that you have to decide: do I take 2 short jumps and go through an Anarchy to buy fuel, or go direct safely and waste 15 hours?

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:21 am 
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It's a beaut, no doubt about it; and that's the finish I was lusting after, though maybe with a smaller mesh pattern. Despite it's many admirable qualities, however, the Contractor isn't the ship for me. I'm wanting a 20t (or thereabouts) cargo hold for scooping up the mortal remains of any bad guys I'm fluky enough to zap.
Have you considered the Wolf Mark II? I settled on my Wolf II SE a long time ago and I've never regretted it. It's not available in black as standard, but you can always create your own custom skin.

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:38 am 
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Anyway, what this thinking leads to is unlimited fuel tanks, in which case the 7 LY limit and the need to buy fuel go away, with them the encounters with Vipers and pirates, and all that is left is just trading.
I must be missing something here. I thought the 7ly max jump was cast in concrete? (I'm not including any OXP jump devices that may or may not exist as I know absolutely nothing about such things). So even if I somehow manage to snag a Quirium Gas tanker, tether it to the back of my Python and run a fuel line across -- unlimited fuel, effectively -- I can still only jump 7ly. Having arrived at my destination, for sure I can refill my main tank and immediately jump out again (I call this stringing the jumps, though CJ Cherryh got there years before me), but how is that so very different from sun-skimming? The latter practice does take a little longer, admittedly, as I have to fly to the sun and top up, but this only seems to take a couple of minutes or so. The only difference 'unlimited fuel' makes, as I see it, is saving me this small amount of time.

Even when I do call in at a station, to refill my extra tanks, drop off a cargo or visit a seedy bar for some pleasant female company, I tend to stay out of the traffic lanes to avoid pirates and cut down on mass-locking from other traders & GalCop. I imagine lots of newbies do likewise, especially those flying Pythons. :) At some point I'll take the plunge and switch professions from hauler to bounty hunter, but until that time, I'm happy if I never see another pirate, to be honest. And that's the real beauty of this fantastic game, surely? One can chose a profession and learn the tactics that suit it best, in order to lead the sort of Oolife one wants -- fast and dangerous, sedate and (relatively) safe, or anywhere in between.

Anyway, the whole debate seems a bit futile at this point. Smivs' handwavium explains why I can't have a refillable-in-space extra tank, so that's that, I suppose. <sighs> :wink:
Quote:
Have you considered the Wolf Mark II? I settled on my Wolf II SE a long time ago and I've never regretted it. It's not available in black as standard, but you can always create your own custom skin.
I have looked at it, in fact -- it's on my short list. I do notice that it's slightly more expensive than the Scimitar and considerably more so than the Cat, but a bit slower than both. I confess I'm obsessed with top speed at the moment, though I'm not sure how much difference it really makes in practice.


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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Have you considered the Wolf Mark II? I settled on my Wolf II SE a long time ago and I've never regretted it. It's not available in black as standard, but you can always create your own custom skin.
I have looked at it, in fact -- it's on my short list. I do notice that it's slightly more expensive than the Scimitar and considerably more so than the Cat, but a bit slower than both. I confess I'm obsessed with top speed at the moment, though I'm not sure how much difference it really makes in practice.
It's the 20-ton cargo bay that slows it down (and jacks up the price). Top speed is important – apart from anything else it helps get past masslocks without the need for injectors – but in combat, with judicious use of injectors, I'm not convinced that a high top cruising speed is such a huge advantage.

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Just a thought Albee, but have you had a look at my Boa Clipper. At first sight it looks 'freighter' but it is one of the best all-rounders I know of. My 'main' Commander has flown one for a couple of years and it is flexible and versatile. Whatever career you choose, it will serve you well and never disappoints.

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Just a thought Albee, but have you had a look at my Boa Clipper.
I have now you suggested it. Impressive performance for such a big ship, I agree. I've added it to my personal chart of 'interesting vessels'. Flicking my eye across the columns to my current Python (datum), the differences are remarkable. I'll give it a test flight, just to see.

I've wondered about test flights, actually -- I haven't noticed any such feature within the game (though given other things I've missed recently, that doesn't mean much). I wondered if there would be any interest in having the ability to take any ship out for a test flight. There would be a charge for this, naturally, and it might be significant, as there would need to be a hefty insurance premium. Mind you, any pilot who 'forgot' to bring the ship back would presumably find himself an instant fugitive, theft of a starship being no trivial matter. Besides theft, the insurance would also have to cover accidental damage, and damage/loss of equipment (and even the whole ship) due to hostile action.

I'll give this further thought. Maybe I could take it on as my first attempt at an OXP. (If I do, no one should expect to see anything for at least 3 years, I reckon... maybe even 5!) :)

I'd have to come up with some really strong incentive for the player to want to do this, I realise -- after all, why would anyone pay for something they can have for free? I'm utterly bereft of ideas on that at present. Also, if I were to do this (and it's a big 'if') would I need to build a dockable ship-dealership (he says, like it's a five minute job) or are there existing OXP dockables that would be suitable? I've had a quick look at the wiki picks of same, but find it all a bit confusing, the only one I've downloaded so far being Lave Academy.

Does anyone see any merit in this at all? Sounds pretty strange to me, and I'm the one suggesting it! :?

(p.s. Sorry to be derailing your thread again, Smivs, though you did start it this time). :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:50 pm 
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I've wondered about test flights, actually -- I haven't noticed any such feature within the game...
That is because such a thing was not possible within the game...untill now :D

PS Extra Fuel Tanks :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:11 pm 
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I wondered if there would be any interest in having the ability to take any ship out for a test flight. There would be a charge for this, naturally, and it might be significant, as there would need to be a hefty insurance premium. Mind you, any pilot who 'forgot' to bring the ship back would presumably find himself an instant fugitive, theft of a starship being no trivial matter. Besides theft, the insurance would also have to cover accidental damage, and damage/loss of equipment (and even the whole ship) due to hostile action.

[...]

I'd have to come up with some really strong incentive for the player to want to do this, I realise -- after all, why would anyone pay for something they can have for free? I'm utterly bereft of ideas on that at present.
I can certainly see some merit in being a starship delivery pilot – getting some factory-mint vessel and taking it from A to B (or more likely, Q) for the benefit of some rich owner. Anti-theft precautions might need to be extreme, though: the job should only be available to trusted high-reputation individuals, and penalties for theft should be at the very least an instant Fugitive status, and probably a more-or-less permanent posse of assassins on your tail ... of course, there could be a mission where the player finds a Good Reason™ where a certain ship has to be kept away from its intended owner, and where the successful completion of a variety of tasks might eventually reward the player with outright legal (or as good as) ownership of said ship.

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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:36 pm 
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I can certainly see some merit in being a starship delivery pilot...
I hadn't thought of it in terms of a mission, but that sounds much more viable, doesn't it?

I haven't been offered a single native mission to date, sad to say -- I assume my kill count isn't high enough. I haven't attempted to download any OXP missions either. I thought I'd look at that aspect of the game once I've got my bounty hunter ship sorted and I'm in hunter/killer mode. Or are there missions for which a Python is ideally suited? I need to read up on this, obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:09 am 
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Just a thought Albee, but have you had a look at my Boa Clipper.
I'll give it a test flight, just to see.
I took the Boa Clipper out for a run and was extremely impressed, so much so that I've decided to buy one. Rather than switching to a super-fast 'hunter-killer', I'll stick with contract hauling, but start using the space lanes more to draw pirates in (your own 'nice juicy target' approach). A 150 ton hold also allows me to fit a couple of passenger berths and try my hand at simultaneous cargo hauling/passenger ferrying, the way Diziet Sma does.

I'll now leave you in peace and cease to derail this thread further.


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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Smivs, not sure if I should raise this here or in the Sell Equipment OXP thread, but here goes.

Your musings in other threads on what is and isn't 'reasonable' in terms of extra equipment have finally won me over: I intend to remove the 3LY auxiliary tank and replace it with the 1LY emergency reserve tank. Unfortunately, though Sell Equipment OXP recognises everything else I have aboard, it fails to list the Auxiliary Tank. Do you know why this should be? (Please note, the Auxiliary Tank is definitely aboard my vessel and is working perfectly).

Though I'd prefer to avoid hacking my save file if at all possible, I presume I could achieve the desired result by removing the lines:-

<key>EQ_AUX_TANK</key>
<true/>

At the same time, I could credit my account with a percentage of the total cost of the unit, though I'm not sure what would be an appropriate trade-in value. (50%, maybe?)


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 Post subject: Re: ExtraFuelTanks
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:06 pm 
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Hi Albee,
I don't know how 'sell equipment' works, but I'm guessing it has a list of equipment that can be sold, and that the tanks are not included. If that is the case I cannot do anything about it, although you could have a look in the OXP and if you find a list of removeable equipment just add EQ_AUX_TANK to it.
Otherwise you will need to tweak the save file. Just replace the EQ_AUX_TANK with EQ_RESERVE_TANK to remove the auxiliary tanks and replace them with a reserve tank.
The upgrade from reserve to auxiliary costs 40 000Cr, most of which is labour costs, so in theory removal could be quite expensive as well. I'll leave it to you to decide if removing them should cost money, or whether you get any refund for the removed tanks.

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