Main station beacon

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spara
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Main station beacon

Post by spara » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:45 pm

When I enter a system, the main station is not in my ASC beacon list, but the main station buoy is. When I dock and launch from the main station, the main station (the station it self) is added to my ASC beacon list. Has it always been like this? Is there some rationale for this?

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by Cody » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:47 pm

If you leave the ASC set to the planet, on approach it will switch to the station icon - 'twere ever thus, I believe!

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by spara » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:52 pm

Ah, now I see :D . It gets added when you're within Aegis. Never paid much attention to it earlier TBH.

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by Cody » Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:16 pm

Yes, only within the aegis. Thinking about it, the station icon may have been added later - IIRC, for a short period, the compass pointed directly to the station, not to the nav buoy, hence the need for a station icon. It was then reverted, but the station icon remained for the aegis - cim would know.

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by cim » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:14 am

Basic compass: planet, or station when close to planet
Advanced compass: planet, station if close to planet, star, current target, other beacons

(Close to planet: within 3 planetary radii of its centre; the station orbits by default at 2 from centre)

This is slightly odd in that the default main station has two advanced compass beacons, one of which can only be seen when near the planet, and one of which doesn't point to the station itself and can easily be destroyed. (It's even stranger if the main station is OXPed to be further away from the planet, since you then have to go to the planet to find the main station, and lose the beacon signal again when heading to it)

I think the right solution to this is to have:
- main station beacon, visible with ASC always and basic as now (and maybe some adjustment if the main station is a long way from the planet, for the basic compass)
- no beacon on the nav buoy
but as Cody says that experiment didn't last long in the pre-1.77 code as it wasn't popular with most people. The ASC had the station icon long before that, though.

If I was doing things from scratch I would also remove the witchpoint buoy entirely and replace it with a waypoint - then "why isn't the station nearer the witchpoint to cut down on piracy" can be explained by "the area around the witchpoint must be kept clear of mass to allow safe re-entry".

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by Smivs » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:57 am

cim wrote: If I was doing things from scratch I would also remove the witchpoint buoy entirely and replace it with a waypoint - then "why isn't the station nearer the witchpoint to cut down on piracy" can be explained by "the area around the witchpoint must be kept clear of mass to allow safe re-entry".
I wouldn't want to see the WP buoy removed. I like the 'Clear Area' concept, and think the buoy fits in with this to mark the area.
There are times when it can be useful to locate the WP from elsewhere in the system as well, and a buoy there allows this.
Last edited by Smivs on Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Main station beacon

Post by kanthoney » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:08 pm

cim wrote:If I was doing things from scratch I would also remove the witchpoint buoy entirely and replace it with a waypoint - then "why isn't the station nearer the witchpoint to cut down on piracy" can be explained by "the area around the witchpoint must be kept clear of mass to allow safe re-entry".
Presumably there's a significant amount of trade between the station and the planet itself (where all the goods are produced and consumed), so if you moved the station to the witchpoint the pirates would simply target that traffic instead.

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by spara » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:40 pm

What was the main argument for keeping the main station nav buoy beacon in addition to the station beacon? Is it some nostalgia thing or something? I fail to see the point of two main station beacons instead of just having one on the station.

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by Cody » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:48 pm

spara wrote:What was the main argument for keeping the main station nav buoy beacon in addition to the station beacon?
I was trying to remember that myself, but I can't even recall my opinion at the time (most probably in favour of the station beacon).

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by Smivs » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:19 pm

Is there any reason to have a Nav buoy if the station has a beacon? The buoy needs a purpose if it is to be there at all, and my view is that having the beacon is its purpose, just like the WP buoy/beacon I discussed above. So I am actually questioning why the station has a beacon.
There is one obvious reason to give the buoy the beacon as opposed to the station.
Scenario:- Skipper fancies a lazy cruise towards the planet so locks the autopilot onto the beacon.....then dozes off. Some time later the ship collides with the beacon and is destroyed. So we have a stupid, dead pilot who has successfully 'Darwin'd' himself, but what about collateral? If the beacon is buoy-mounted, the buoy is damaged or destroyed. Not good but no innocent lives lost. If the beacon is attached to the station itself, the actual station could be damaged, possibly seriously and with loss of life. So the best place for the beacon is on the buoy.
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Re: Main station beacon

Post by Cody » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:25 pm

Regardless of which has the beacon, the nav buoy is there as an aid for lining-up on the slot.

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by Smivs » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:31 pm

Cody wrote:Regardless of which has the beacon, the nav buoy is there as an aid for lining-up on the slot.
True, but that's only the case for Jamesons really - I doubt that many experienced Commanders use the buoy at all. So it seems a bit odd that a large, presumably expensive object which would actually pose a hazard to navigation in many situations would be put there solely for this purpose.
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Re: Main station beacon

Post by ffutures » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:53 pm

Most obvious reason - redundancy. If the buoy is shot up and a ship for some reason has to leave the station and return to it there will still be an easy way to find the station. For example, in Thargoid wars the buoys are often targeted. If you chased a thargoid a long way out from the station then had to return for fuel and repairs it would be a lot easier if there's still a transmitter on the station to guide you back. If the buoy is shot up but you have planetfall installed and want to land for some reason then return to the station the station beacon will guide you back. Or theoretically there might be damage to the beacon on the station but the buoy might still be working, though I don't think I've ever seen this within the game. I get the impression that the buoy beacon is much more powerful, don't know if the inner workings of the game reflect that.

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Re: Main station beacon

Post by spara » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:38 pm

I always thought that the station buoy is there exactly for docking. Safety first type of thing. And I always thought that the reason for the beacon being on the buoy is some kind of blast from the past. Then again my concept of Ooniverse has quite strongly been sculpted by OXPs that primarily have the beacon on the station.

It would make things more consistent with expanded Ooniverses, if the beacon was on the station only and the buoy is just there to guide the ships to dock. Or maybe the buoy is just some kind router or uplink or something to the surface. Something delicate that would get too much interference from the station. That would also be the reason for it to be exactly on the planet - station axis.

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