Parcel / passenger transport

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Fritz
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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Fritz »

ralph_hh wrote:Or a pirate who is yet undiscovered by Galcop?
Strangely, something like this doesn't seem to exist.
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ralph_hh
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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by ralph_hh »

@ralph_hh: It does matter - every judge should look at the past life! And every civilised law distinguishes between accidental and intentional, but Oolite law doesn't.
Adjust Oolite to real life logics then? If our police finds you with some gangsters, shooting guns, you'd be jailed for murder, unless it was self defense. But this is Ooliote, here it is legal to kill an offender who has only smuggled narcotics.. Well...
If you kill some police member accidentially, you'd go to jail, that's for sure. I doubt anyone can convince a judge that it was morally acceptable to do a shootout while innocent bystanders could be harmed.

The thing is, Oolite does not have jails, so it's either a fee to pay or a "dead or alive" poster with your face on it.


I admit, I sometimes wish I could send out a radio message like "hey, sorry buddy, that laser burst was not meant for you". In a random hits event with 20 ships involved, 10 bad guys, 10 good guys, I've also hit a good guy who came too close to my target two or three times.

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Fritz »

You're right, we obviously can't compare Oolite law to real life law. But because of this, there is also a difference between a civilian having a shoot-out with gangsters in real life, and a pilot having a shoot-out with pirates in a world where this kind of behaviour is expected.
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Anonymissimus
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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Anonymissimus »

What's up with getting parcel reputation ? I've pretty recently delivered a risk 1 and risk 2 contract but still nobody has ever heard of me delivering a parcel (again). Getting cargo contract reputation is much easier (aside from the needed cargo space). For every successful contract reputation goes up 1 step basically. Once it's near maximum it decays more quickly, from nobody has ever hear to most renown it takes 8-9 contracts provided all successful. Not so for parcels. Perhaps decay happens at every jump,and I always make short jumps if possible.
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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Cody »

I just had to refuse a 37k contract as I still had a few drops to make, and the numbers didn't quite add up! <sobs>

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by ralph_hh »

Anonymissimus wrote:What's up with getting parcel reputation ? I've pretty recently delivered a risk 1 and risk 2 contract but still nobody has ever heard of me delivering a parcel (again). Getting cargo contract reputation is much easier (aside from the needed cargo space). For every successful contract reputation goes up 1 step basically. Once it's near maximum it decays more quickly, from nobody has ever hear to most renown it takes 8-9 contracts provided all successful. Not so for parcels. Perhaps decay happens at every jump,and I always make short jumps if possible.
Given the fact that you can pick up endless parcel contracts, as those do not require cargo space, it must be the intention that you need many more parcels to get a top ranking. And it seems you have to stay in that business to keep it there, it decays quickly indeed.
For cargo, until you finally pick up the platinum business with a top ranking, it is difficult to obtain a reputation as often you can carry only one single contracts load at a time. So you need less runs in return. Consequently thereafter it is easy to hold that rank, as you can easily take many platinum/gold/gem stone contracts simultaneously.

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Anonymissimus »

ralph_hh wrote:For cargo, until you finally pick up the platinum business with a top ranking, it is difficult to obtain a reputation as often you can carry only one single contracts load at a time.
Not at all. I always sell that cargo, unless the trip is very short. 2-3 systems previously to the destination I start rebuying the cargo in suitable systems. Sometimes the destination system itself suffices.
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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by ffutures »

Anonymissimus wrote:
ralph_hh wrote:For cargo, until you finally pick up the platinum business with a top ranking, it is difficult to obtain a reputation as often you can carry only one single contracts load at a time.
Not at all. I always sell that cargo, unless the trip is very short. 2-3 systems previously to the destination I start rebuying the cargo in suitable systems. Sometimes the destination system itself suffices.
This is a BIG weakness of the cargo contract system. I go to a lot of trouble NOT to do this, including buying extra cargo of the same type so that damage will never drop the total quantity below the contract, but the temptation is always there.

In the real world I'm currently having an ebay dispute with a lying git who bought an expensive calculator and now claims I sent him a box containing random electrical junk; he's lying through his teeth but in the Oolite world I'd be able to do what he claims then say "you paid for 300g of electronics, I sent you that so you've no valid complaint."

I really wish that cargo shipped under a contract had some unique identifier so that you couldn't just sell it off then buy more as it's convenient. There are usually cheaper sources for the stuff en route, so there must be some special reason why the cargo - these particular minerals, those particular furs - are worth shipping half way across the galaxy. Of course there would then be problems if cargo was damaged, e.g. if you were transporting 200 tons of special furs and 2 tons got destroyed you would have no way to replace them, so would have to pay a penalty for shrinkage (as sometimes happens if you arrive without enough cargo) rather than simply buying replacement. Or maybe you could buy goods _of the requisite quality_ at a steep premium.

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Cody »

ffutures wrote:This is a BIG weakness of the cargo contract system.
<nods> There was some talk of fixing that exploit... but where it stands, I know not.

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by cim »

ralph_hh wrote:Given the fact that you can pick up endless parcel contracts, as those do not require cargo space, it must be the intention that you need many more parcels to get a top ranking. And it seems you have to stay in that business to keep it there, it decays quickly indeed.
I'm happy it looks intentional, but it wasn't. Parcels and passengers were extended from a "-7 to 7" to a "-70 to 70" reputation scale when they were updated in 1.80 (single contracts can give more than one rep point, though); cargo contracts were not updated because it wasn't decided what to do with them (they should, I think, also be on a 70 point scale with more distinctions between low, medium and high rep contracts, but the issues below need resolving first)
ffutures wrote:This is a BIG weakness of the cargo contract system.
There are, I think, two ways to do a cargo contract system which would work.
1) You are expected to deliver the exact cargo you were contracted for; you have a permanent reduction in usable hold space while doing the contract, and if it's damaged in a fight it's damaged and you'll take a penalty on the reward. You might get charged a deposit to take the contract, but you can't sell the goods as they're not yours to sell (well, maybe at the shadier rock hermits you could)
2) You are asked to deliver an amount of a type of cargo to a specific location by a specific time. The person giving you the contract doesn't provide any cargo and there's no fee to accept the contract - you buy it yourself on the way and shift it there however you think best (and you can deliver bits at a time if you get it all there in the limit)

There's no reason there couldn't be both types on offer at once, indeed.

The current system did have fans too, the last time this was discussed, though.

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Fritz »

I didn't do any cargo contracts yet because, simply said, my ship is too small, but I think this is a big flaw. Isn't the point of a cargo contract to carry goods halfway through the galaxy? Who would pay for carrying something over a long distance that is available in every system anyhow? I actually wondered about the logic behind the cargo contracts, and I had mentioned it in one of my early postings.

I would only allow to buy the carried type of cargo (to replaces fighting losses), but not to sell or even dump it. Even better and more realistic would be to introduce special cargo, like "smoked trumbles" (food), "diamonds" (gem stones), "space ship parts" (machinery), "laser guns" (firearms), or "gold coins" (gold).

cim's second idea sounds good too, but it would be a completely different type of contract. But you could do it with multiple flights without having to drag around an Anaconda, so it would be interesting for players like me too! The amount to be delivered should be very high though, or it would be too easy.
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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by ralph_hh »

The cargo Thing is a bit crazy anyway.
I'm flying a Cobra MKIII, which has 35t cargo space - extension included.
I have 3500 kills, deadly ranking, so I suppose I must be prepared for anything that comes.
But no, no one trust me to be able to carry platinum, unless I shipped food and ore through the galaxy.
The thing is, while my cargo is big enough for that platinum, the 120tons of furs do not fit.
It was a lengthy process to get that reputation and I'm quite happy that it requires many runs less than with parcels.

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Cody »

The intuition: there's a prime contract awaiting me in the Seventh Octant.
The plan: travel from the Fifth to the right system in the Seventh in two jumps.
The implementation: jump from Raatzama through to Inesbe, purchase another Galactic Hyperdrive, then jump through to Arinra.
The result: satisfaction!
Last edited by Cody on Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Fritz »

I only see a white screen... probably your view was better! ;)

Yesterday evening you were in Bian, so you flew right across G5 in a few hours? Yes, I'm watching you through an undocumented multiplayer option. :mrgreen:
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Re: Parcel / passenger transport

Post by Cody »

That image link should work - need someone else to check, as it's fine here.

Yeah, cleared a couple of cross-chart contracts, felt the intuition at Erxearis, and knew I was ideally placed.
The two choke-points in the Seventh make it the best, even though the Rift Worlds are unconnected.

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