introduction by obligatory list

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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cbr
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introduction by obligatory list

Post by cbr »

Hello,

After many years of on-off-oolite i collected this summer a small list things i encountered and would like to use
these to introduce myself on this forum.

Feel free to point me to any code snippet / oxp / oxz / ships / related topics

1) multiple dock stations share the same market
yes

2) station with sub entities containing multiple docks with the same market
if we dock at a station with multiple docks we see the same market...

3) restricted docking/launching from á multiple dock per shiptype shuttle/police/medic
example dock1 launching only shuttles, dock2 lauching police

4) external docking options for bigship traders / resupplying liners at the main station
example the andromeda -> cargoship
example in altmap.oxz from sotl.oxz ( follow lunas ->pythons at taf 16 )
example fuelstation.oxp ( checks for position )
5) or an external port next to a station where bigships position themselves next to and one can see shuttles/small freighters launching to/from the port to/from station/planet/xxx
example the hammerhead carrier in the aquatics.oxz

6) non round planets with missing chunks
adding your own model/object/asteroid as planet model ( probably resourcehog / side effects )

7) light maps for planets?
perhaps future release

8 ) additional ambient sound system depending on situation and positions ( example background noices )
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite ... e#position

9) more persistent markets
is it the same between saving/loading? Yes
as of version 1.80 ( perhaps accounts for the 2mb savefiles )
Markets are preserved on the main station, the station the player saves at, and any other station which reappears at the same coordinates after reloading.

10) influencable markets, a recently docked big trader loading off 1000t of computers lowers the price of … computers
as the markets are persistent this should work also, if big traders (npc or not) unloading will influence station prices
11) in 1.83 multiple lasers configurations, i like de multiple/split options, there's always a cost to consider.

12) But it seems to only work for the main entity not for ships with multiple subentities carrying multiple lasers.
aah the cylon triplets only fire four lasers

13) multiple laserfire alternating 1212 or 12341234 / allleft & allright / random / all=standard

14) multiple lasers would be nice to be destructable/damageable, start with 4, end with one but alive.

15) Multiply laser options per side ( front single / aft multiply )
core
16) i would like a turret laser perhaps with var 'cone' settings 180-0 c
core
17) i would like a ball turret with var 'cone' settings 180-0 c
core
18) i would like a addon laser effects like in star wars with slower moving photon streams (visual effect)
railgun.oxp, currently playing with the goliath turret oxp
These examples are firing 'physical' objects
19) a base price configuration for ships depending on lightspeed, max-cargo and number of lasers, lightspeed and lasers nonlineair so the
uber high speed ships cost a lot more. oolite should calculate the price of the ship not the designer.

20) The cargo capacity is reduced by the equipment installed
so the ability is already in oolite, only not applied to core items ( equipment.plist )
"requires_cargo_space" = x

21) Equipment takes a certain amount of the ship ( no adders with naval energy and military xxx ) ship size matters.
oxz -> http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16842
a big freighter could fit all the good equipment but should be sluggish compared to a fighter ( mass / thrust )

22) a random start option. Start in a random station in a random galaxy

23) trading gemstones/gold should always give some extra risk bonus
oxp able
24) oxpconfigurable populator.script ... i like full spacelances ( trader, all the time in the world )

25) galaxytour a (starting) option which give you a nice flyby several random galaxy highlights (planets/spacestations/liners/ships/occuring fights etc)
let's call it screensaver mode

26) ren(t)gineer with the right cargo in your hold and a engineer ( 3 classes ) on the payroll and equipment ( must buy a onboard workshop )
one could make certain equipment onboard (engineer class 2 +ore+gold+computers -> docking computers 1a2 weeks building time)
looking at armoury.oxp ( lasermachine.js)

27) i used to think texturing was easier than 3d modeling, hm...

28) escort formations nice but what about attack formations ( keep in formation! ) enemies attacking and staying in formation
Possible to OXP with scripted AIs :|
Perhaps possible via Subentity positions because they can be altered during play :idea:

29) on the station ebay like buy/sell options for some good deals for the beginning player and seasoned player ( or not so good deals ) ( time delayed reception of goods )
--> sellall oxp ( but i would like a chance on a good deal too :) )

30) secondhand store on the station ( equipment must deliver subpar perfomance but cheaper)

31) for the long haul trader ingame possibility to play movies in a smallish translucent window

32) ambience breakable equipment -> frontscreen scratches/coffeestains/squashed trumble/diffuuse effects
looking at http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Breaka ... pment_OXPs
33) equipment optical telescope ( perhaps without crosshair ) ( a buyable microhubble with camerafunction)
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Sniper ... System_HUD
34) into dark side in seven days through the knowledge on the wiki and this forum

35) I like the classic ships, I like addon ship oxps/oxzs the more variety the better, chances for different models of the same ship to appear should somehow be equal?
the game selects 'traders' from the accumulated pool of ships with the role 'trader'
these roles are weighed in the ships oxp, which can only be changed per ship oxp or shipdata-overrides.plist

36) the oxz manager is really nice works fine although my oxp side is somewhat bigger, is it possible to have the an extra oxz map on a different drive? So one can have some of the bigger (planets) oxz/oxp on a different HD
par example can the addon folder be on a usb drive and oolite stay on root
'link' was the magic word, copy/move managedaddons elsewhere, make a link, move link to original managedaddons position with the name managedaddons ...
(large eyecandy oxp --> needs a lot more memory :))
37) planetfall miner ( insert spiceminer ) , digs for ore(gold/platinum/etc) on a planet

38) for more immersion planetinfo screen also shows a picture of the inhabitants hehehe… and perhaps a small soundfile with their language

39) I find the wireframe playmode a bit difficult to see, perhaps the linethickness could be a optionally enlarged ( 1,2,4 times thickness settings ). Harder to see than the original elite

40) ringracers, some systems have a racetrack from station to witchpoint and back, you can place your legal bet and WATCH the race (multiple npc racers ) and win some credits/fuel/cargo

41) can a station have a laser defence points?
for the moment 'only' plasma turrets

42) getting shot by your own hired escorts and drunk escorts blowing themselves up on the station or playership
and i want this to happen less not more :)

43) laserperiod “10101000” 3x fire then a rest ( timing depending on rate ) to keep npc from heating up to much
a script which periodically remove and put back the weapon
44) where is the spacetrader.oxp? Instant jumping inside each station, skipping the flying but not without consequences
gates.oxp comes close but i seem to have read somewhere that it is possible to jump right into a station when the station
has something enabled, must be enabled for all stations in all galaxies...


see commands http://bb.aegidian.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... 29#p242034
45) npc attack ai without fleeing, attacks and tries mostly to keep the front of his ship pointed at you, relentless
editable via AI scripts
46) rear view mirror flatscreen or multiview translucent miniscreens on the front view (1)

47) a ship with 'wings' like republic shuttle ( starwars ) folds his wings and can now enter the regular docks (, and after launching spreading the wings)
subentitie positions can be moved during play. example butterfly.oxp
which means the moving parts need to be separated
48) what is the max number of ships/entities in a system
2048 entities but that is including backdrop, laser effects and explosions

49) is there an opening.oxp so instead of the cobra model, the system loads a random model from the pool of 'showable' items (cargo/asteroids/ships it is nice to be surprised)
this http://bb.aegidian.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8634 or random
50) is there a option to test new ships( npc) against other ships (npc) with the player as a nontargetable observer. Example to test a new trader against pirates in deep space.
so the cloak keeps me from getting shot at...
Last edited by cbr on Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:06 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Lone_Wolf
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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by Lone_Wolf »

20: can be done by adding "requires_cargo_space" = x to a equipment object, see [wiki]equipment.plist[/wiki]

21: http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16842

24: [wiki]Oolite_System_Populator[/wiki]

26: the missile machine from Thargoid' [wiki]Armoury_OXP[/wiki] does something similar for creating missiles.
OS : Arch Linux 64-bit - rolling release

OXPs : My user page

I am subscribed to the threads for my oxps, if you need my attention just post in them or send a pm.

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Diziet Sma
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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by Diziet Sma »

G'day cbr, and welcome aboard!
cbr wrote:9) more resistent market
I've no idea what you mean by this.. please elaborate.
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by Norby »

Welcome cbr!

1) Read [wiki]Multiple Docks[/wiki].
2) Docks are always subentities and the market is always the same in a station.
3) See Station keys, for example max_police=0 can disable launching of vipers.
4) Shift+C usually, but [wiki]Andromeda[/wiki] can do it using a cargoship.
5) Not impossible but NPC programming is harder than a trick for the player. A js checking ship.position.distanceTo(station.position) is not enough, need AI tweaks also.
6) You can define a really big asteroid model and use as a "planet".
7) There was an attempt to use shaders on planets but is not in the current version.
8 ) SoundSource position
9) Spara and cim are the market experts here, please ask a bit more specific about "more resistent market".
10) [wiki]BlOomberg Markets[/wiki], [wiki]Risk Based Economy OXP[/wiki] and [wiki]Smugglers[/wiki] do market changes.
11-12) Yes.
13) I thinked on alternating fire also but imho it is not possible without further core changes.
14) Damaged lasers can be simulated with replacing to new weaker ones.
15-17) Core requests (which are out of my power).
18) [wiki]Railgun[/wiki] is similar.
19) Imho Oolite will never force the price of ships. You are free to avoid an unbalaced ship or change the cost in your macine or suggest a new price in the forum or even release an alternative with your price.
20) [wiki]Repair Bots[/wiki] need 2t, exactly as Lone Wolf said.
21) I use ship mass levels over 30t, 130t, 260t, 400t and 800t in my OXPs: [wiki]EscortDeck[/wiki], [wiki]Laser Cannons[/wiki] and ShipVersion.
22) A workaround: change the locaton in a starter savegame.
23) "Risky gems" sounds as an OXP idea - you can make what you can imagine.
24) [wiki]Total patrol[/wiki] is an example also.
25) Sounds like GNN news in [wiki]Snoopers[/wiki].
26) Like [wiki]Ore Processor[/wiki].
27) An easy start if you modify existing models and textures.
28) Attack formations need [EliteWiki] AI programming which is not the easiest task.
29) Like the Alternative Customer in [wiki]SellAll[/wiki].
30) You can define "used" equipments either in the normal store or put into a new second-hand interface.
31) You can read stories in MFD with Ship's Library.
32) Breakable HUD and Failing HUD.
33) [wiki]Sniper_Camera_System_HUD[/wiki], Sniper Sight.
34) The most recent topic about the dark side here.
35) [wiki]Installing multiple retexture OXPs[/wiki]
36) You can make a symbolic link into your AddOns folder named to any.oxp (the extension must be .oxp) then put into your large planet oxps by hand.
37-38) planetfall miner - another good oxp idea, [wiki]PlanetFall[/wiki] already define some places as mine and give an interface to create new locations.
39) Maybe shaders can make thicker wireframes. Try ask in a similar topic like this or this.
40) [EliteWiki] Ringracers - you can use existing race teams and ships in [wiki]Racers[/wiki].
41) Station laser defence points need to implement laser turrets imho.
42) Both friendly hits and collisions are already happen in the game. We usually must work to reduce these but you are free to increase. ;)
43) Reduced laserperiod is possible either via new slower lasers or a script which periodically remove and put back the weapon.
44) [wiki]Gates OXP[/wiki] is close.
45) You can make relentless NPCs based on the core scripts in oolite.app/Resources/AIs folder.
46) Rear view mirror surely need core tricks but interesting.
47) [wiki]Lambda Shuttle[/wiki] need some scripting which move wing subentities.
48) Max. 2048. It is hard-coded and we should avoid it from far to prevent strange errors.
49) Try the 3. item in the main menu (View Ship Library), then the [wiki]Gallery[/wiki] OXP. At last resort you can set this.$GalleryAll=true; in gallery.js.
50) You can spawn ships around you by a small js script or commands in debug console while you are cloaked in a ship with increased energy regeneration to be a spectator.

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by cbr »

Thanks for all the suggestions!

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by spara »

9) Yes, markets stay over save/load as long as the station has been spawned using populator with deterministic key set to true. To my understanding that should currently be true on all core stations and stationary stations available from the manager.
37) Deep Horizon - Gas Giants Skimming works with Gas Giants for Additional Planets oxp available from the manager, although it nags.

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by Norby »

cbr wrote:is it the same after saving/loading?
Before 1.79 [wiki]In-System Market Restore[/wiki] saved the market of non-main stations, now all markets in deterministic stations are saved into the savefile by the core game.
cbr wrote:it is possible to jump right into a station

Code: Select all

this.shipWillExitWitchspace = function() {
	var s = system.mainStation;
	if (s) s.dockPlayer();
}
cbr wrote:so the cloak keeps me from getting shot at...
Prevent targeting but you still can get accidental hits.

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by Diziet Sma »

Diziet Sma wrote:
cbr wrote:9) more resistent market
I've no idea what you mean by this.. please elaborate.
cbr wrote:9) more resistent market
is it the same after saving/loading?
Ahh.. more persistent markets.. gotcha.
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by cim »

cbr wrote:5) or an external port next to a station where bigships position themselves next to and one can see shuttles/small freighters launching to/from the port to/from
station/planet/xxx
There's an example of freighters with cargo transfer done by shuttles in my experimental Altmap OXP. (These are freighters with external docking attachments - it would be a lot easier to do for the bigships with an internal dock)
cbr wrote:6) non round planets with missing chunks
7) light maps for planets?
You'd have to make a very large non-planetary object for this, which would have various side-effects. (7 is an intended feature for core planets but no timescale yet)
cbr wrote:9) more resistent market
is it the same after saving/loading?
Markets are preserved on the main station, the station the player saves at, and any other station which reappears at the same coordinates after reloading.
cbr wrote:19) a base price configuration for ships depending on lightspeed, max-cargo and number of lasers, lightspeed and lasers nonlineair so the
uber high speed ships cost a lot more. oolite should calculate the price of the ship not the designer.
There's a suggested formula lying around the forum somewhere. It gives decent results for "mainstream" multi-role ships but specialist stuff is likely to end up underpriced or overpriced. (And a lot of ship capability is in the equipment upgrades rather than the hull)
cbr wrote:20) The cargo capacity is reduced by the equipment installed
so the ability is already in oolite, only not applied to core items ( equipment.plist )
Can be OXPed, but it's very difficult to do this sort of thing without ending up in the Frontier Elite 2 (and to a lesser extent Elite: Dangerous) situation where the best combat ship is a giant freighter because that's what can fit all the good equipment.
cbr wrote:28) escort formations nice but what about attack formations ( keep in formation! ) enemies attacking and staying in formation
Possible to OXP with scripted AIs, but probably only useful if attacking very large slow targets.
cbr wrote:35) I like the classic ships, I like addon ship oxps/oxzs the more variety the better, chances for different models of the same ship to appear should somehow be equal?
Splitting the definition of ship model and ship specification in the core game is about the only way to do this, and doing that without breaking every existing ship OXP is a lot of work.
cbr wrote:36) the oxz manager is really nice works fine although my oxp side is somewhat bigger, is it possible to have the an extra oxz map on a different drive? So one can have some of the bigger (planets) oxz/oxp on a different HD
par example can the addon folder be on a usb drive and oolite stay on root
The addons folder can be a symlink which lets you put it anywhere. (Fairly easy to create on Linux and Mac; can be done on Windows too but I can't remember where the instructions are)
cbr wrote:41) can a station have a laser defence points?
Yes, but without proper turret lasers it's probably not much use. Quite a few OXP stations - e.g. Random Hits - have plasma turrets.
cbr wrote:44) where is the spacetrader.oxp? Instant jumping inside each station, skipping the flying but not without consequences
gates.oxp comes close but i seem to have read somewhere that it is possible to jump right into a station when the station
has something enabled, must be enabled for all stations in all galaxies...
OXPable very quickly with

Code: Select all

this.shipExitedWitchspace = function() {
  system.mainStation.dockPlayer();
}
Though while Oolite is a space trading/combat game, in common with most games in that genre the trading side isn't really detailed enough to run its own game and probably isn't worth starting a massive 3D rendering application for - I'd do this as a multi-window GUI app or possibly a web app outside of Oolite [1]

[1] Before I got invited to the dev team and no longer had time for it my next planned project was a web app based on New Cargoes which would let you run a space trading company sending freighters on various trade routes, making decision on escort budgets, goods to trade, etc. and trying to make a profit.
cbr wrote:47) a ship with 'wings' like republic shuttle ( starwars ) folds his wings and can now enter the regular docks (, and after launching spreading the wings)
Subentity positions can be altered during play to do this sort of thing. I expect there are examples but I can't immediately think of one.
cbr wrote:48) what is the max number of ships/entities in a system
2048 entities. This doesn't count subentities, but does count a bunch of things you might not have thought of such as the sky backdrop and various transient effects such as laser shots and explosions. In practice you probably don't want to go much above 1024.

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by Smivs »

Welcome, cbr.
cbr wrote: 35) I like the classic ships, I like addon ship oxps/oxzs the more variety the better, chances for different models of the same ship to appear should somehow be equal?
Just to expand on this a bit, ships are spawned by role, so the game will generate X number of Traders, Y number of Heavy Assassins, Z number of Miners etc. Each ship has a set of roles specified in its shipdata so when the game calls for a Trader, say, it will select one at random from all the ships with the role Trader.
If using additional retexture packs this means that (assuming the ships in the retexture pack mirror the 'core' ships) when a Trader is called, the game will select one from any of the packs. In other words ships of the same type (eg Python) should all appear more or less with the same frequency. If you have one 'addition' set along with the default ships you should see a similar number of default' and 'retextured' Pythons or whatever.
Of course if a ship has several roles you will see quite a few of them as the ones you encounter may be fullfilling different roles.
Roles can be weighted to make ships more (or less) common, and some OXP ships do not have good weighting normally resulting in them appearing far too often.
Commander Smivs, the friendliest Gourd this side of Riedquat.

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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by Thargoid »

cbr wrote:5) or an external port next to a station where bigships position themselves next to and one can see shuttles/small freighters launching to/from the port to/from station/planet/xxx
Install [EliteWiki] Aquatics OXP, find a [EliteWiki] Hammerhead freighter and follow it to the station...
cbr wrote:27) i used to think texturing was easier than 3d modeling, hm...
What a weird concept... :twisted:
cbr wrote:37) planetfall miner ( insert spiceminer ) , digs for ore(gold/platinum/etc) on a planet
You can add additional locations to [EliteWiki] Planetfall, so that can be done as a bolt-on
cbr wrote:41) can a station have a laser defence points?
Turrets work better - install [EliteWiki] Wildships and go look closely at a Kiota.

cbr
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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by cbr »

Hi,

Ow the hammerhead carrier, i like that one :) exactly the interaction i'd like to see.

I looked at The Oolite_System_Populator script it is a beast ( i'll keep it as it is for now :lol: )

For short time testing legacy add system ships may be the easiest way to add some ships,
but it seems to be nicer neater to be thinking in roles and let the (re)populator do it's work...

The codes for jumping into a station

Code: Select all

this.shipWillExitWitchspace = function() {
   var s = system.mainStation;
   if (s) s.dockPlayer();
}

Code: Select all

this.shipExitedWitchspace = function() {
  system.mainStation.dockPlayer();
}
Added these to an oxp script and both worked, comes really close to spacetrader.bas and alikes...
Perhaps something for the beginning player to get accustomed to the trading/flying in oolite.

Thanks again for all the info...

cbr
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Re: introduction by obligatory list

Post by cbr »

4) liners loading/unloading at main dock
Image

Here is an image of what i meant, big liners position themselves next to the (un)loading station and shuttles and traders moving cargo from multiple docks to the main station or others destinations

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