First experiences / difficulties

General discussion for players of Oolite.

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Cody
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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Cody »

Norby wrote:The target sensitive reticle will not change to red until the target is out of range.
<scratches head> You've got me puzzled there, Norby - am I missing something?

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by ffutures »

Injectors may not have been in the original BBC micro version of Elite but they were a very early introduction on other platforms - I had them on the PC version, for example. I really don't regard them as cheating.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Norby »

Cody wrote:
Norby wrote:The target sensitive reticle will not change to red until the target is out of range.
<scratches head> You've got me puzzled there, Norby - am I missing something?
I mean when I have [wiki]Scanner Targeting Enhancement[/wiki] and a HUD with enabled reticle_target_sensitive (like in [wiki]HUDSelector[/wiki]) and I approach my locked target (for example a station) then the target box stay green until the target is out of the effective range of my laser regardless of I aim well. The box will turn to red at 15km in the case of Beam Laser which is a way to measure the range of a laser if you are not read this data in the wiki nor in the proper equipment.plist.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Cody »

Nope, still makes no sense to me! Never mind!

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Imaginos »

Hi Fritz... Fuel Injectors are not just for running away... they are also handy for racing towards enemy vessels so that you can close up & personal. :twisted:

If you want a quiet life until you can afford military lasers & strong shields, just point your ship about 80 degrees away from your target planet after making a jump and use your Torus drive until the beacon marker as disappeared from your radar. This will get you out of the busy space-lane... of course this kind of action can make life pretty dull.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Norby »

Imaginos wrote:get you out of the busy space-lane... of course this kind of action can make life pretty dull.
You should install [wiki]DeepSpacePirates[/wiki] in this case.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by phkb »

Norby wrote:
Imaginos wrote:get you out of the busy space-lane... of course this kind of action can make life pretty dull.
You should install [EliteWiki] DeepSpacePirates in this case.
But logically, if you're looking to get out of the space lane to avoid battles when you don't have the equipment, installing an OXP to put pirates in the "out-of-lane" places kind of makes no sense. If you want contacts (bad or otherwise), stay in the lane. If you want to avoid them due to lack of equipment, avoid the lane but also avoid OXP's that put pirates out of the lane. If you have the equipment and want more contacts outside the lane, then install OXP's like DeepSpacePirates.
Norby wrote:I mean when I have [EliteWiki] Scanner Targeting Enhancement and a HUD with enabled reticle_target_sensitive (like in [EliteWiki] HUDSelector) and I approach my locked target (for example a station) then the target box stay green until the target is out of the effective range of my laser regardless of I aim well. The box will turn to red at 15km in the case of Beam Laser which is a way to measure the range of a laser if you are not read this data in the wiki nor in the proper equipment.plist.
In my experience the recticle will go red when the ship is in range of the current weapon and mostly lined up. No precisely in some cases, but mostly. If your recticle is doing something different I think something funny might be happening on your computer. Here's some screenshots that demonstrate the issue:

Image

In this image I have the military laser installed. Notice that the target, the main station, is inside military laser range at 21km distant. The target recticle is red as the target is lined up: meaning: weapon is in range and a hit on the target is likely.

Image

In this image I have a beam laser installed. It's the same target (actually, I have beam weapons in my port and starboard positions, so all I did was rotate to the left 90 degrees). Notice that the target is out of beam weapon range at 21km distant. While the crosshairs are lined up, the recticle is green: meaning - weapon is out of range, no hit on the target is likely.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Layne »

I don't recognize that HUD, phkb, but I like the minimalist quality it has. Which one is that?
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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by phkb »

Seems kind of weird to be plugging my own HUD, but it's the Xenon HUD.

Edit: Although, I think I read in one of your other posts that you aren't using 1.82 yet, due to performance issues? If so, my HUD isn't going to work for you. It's using 1.82 features to achieve most of what it's doing.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by another_commander »

@Layne: In this post I gave a link to a modified 1.82, which reverts the change that caused the FPS drop on your system (or I hope it does). You may want to try to install 1.82 and then run the executable from that post instead of the official one and see if that helps with performance on your system. If it does, you should be able to enjoy all the 1.82 goodies and all the expansion packs written for it.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Norby »

phkb wrote:the recticle will go red when the ship is in range of the current weapon and mostly lined up.
Yes, I tried to say exactly this, thanks for the clarification and the nice screenshots.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Fritz »

Thank you again for all your advice!

I have upgraded my ship to what I'm used to from the C64: 2 military lasers. With these I finally can destroy ships, although they still can survive impressive salvos that would have pulverized Thargoids on the C64 version . The laser range seems to be the full radar range, so it is not an issue anymore, and for aiming at long distances I found the ident system quite useful (on the C64 I use the missile targeting system). I still think that is impossible to destroy anything much more than an orbital shuttle with the weaker lasers, but probably I'm wrong.

Meanwhile I'm rated "poor" with 18 kills (I destroyed more ships but I didn't make it home every time) and I'm starting to look for fights. What proved _very_ helpful is the scanner targeting enhancement, because it helps to concentrate on a single enemy until he is destroyed. I managed to win against up to four ships attacking me together. I've encountered up to 9 attackers at once and I'm able to stay alive for a long time against them, but in these scenarios I still find it very difficult to get a steady aim on one enemy without being hit by the others.

Obviously Oolite is a bigger challenge than Elite and obviously you need different tactics. Other than with the C64 version it is mostly useless to fire at greater distances. The good old head-on tactics that worked on almost anything apart from the Thargoids usually leads at least to a broken down front shield and lost cargo or equipment, while the enemy survives (probably also heavily damaged). I'm wondering why, because I should have stronger lasers than most (or even all?) NPC ships, I'm flying a Cobra III, a relatively big and solid ship, and one of you said that NPC ships don't even have shields. So shouldn't the player have a big advantage in these head-on fights? It is impossible to count laser hits, but I have the impression that the number of hits a NPC needs to destroy my ship is only a fraction of what I need to destroy him.

The maneuvering of the NPC ships is impressive, and some of them fire to the rear, what took my by surprise the first time. Although I probably still lack practise, I still think that combat balance is near the limit of being unplayable (or, better, unwinnable). Most hostile encounters end up in dogfights, something I usually did only against the Thargoids on the C64. I don't see how an Thargoid encounter can be survivable on Oolite! I had one when I still had only one military laser and little fighting experience, but I don't want to talk about it... :roll:

Meanwhile I even tried the injectors, but I don't use them in battle. Maneuvering is difficult enough, and speeding away concentrates all enemy ships on one side which seems to be counterproductive. Probably it is useful if you really want to end the fight and flee, but I still prefer hyperspace for these situations. The injectors can be useful to chase after a fleeing ship or space debris, but I wouldn't really miss them. At the moment they are damaged, and to repair them I probably need to travel to a planet with a high technology level.

Although fighting is much more difficult in Oolite than in Elite, on thing is much easier (it has been mentioned): It is relatively easy to reach a space station without being attacked, probably because the attackers really travel around somewhere in the solar systems while they were randomly generated around the player in Elite. Even with no fighting skills at all I managed to ship computers to Riedquat (an anarchy), and if you look for a fight in an anarchy or feudal system you have to hyperspeed around a lot until you encounter somebody else. Most attacks happened in visible distance to the witch space entry buoy. Is there a trick to find the buoy after it went out of view?

I've been criticising combat balance, but there are many positive things to say. The Oolite universe seems so much more alive then the Elite universe. I've seen and followed convoys of ships and even joined one of them without getting attacked, I've seen police Vipers attacking pirates, and I've seen fights between two groups of ships. I've used wormholes created by other ships, I found a drifting freighter wreck in an asteroid field, I've landed in a rock hermit, I've been on an Icosahedron station (doesn't exist on the C64 version) and I've been waiting in docking queues watching arriving and departing ships.

I'm sure there is much more to discover. For example I'm wondering if it is possible to travel in the safety of a convoy and still use the time saving hyperspeed. I once followed a single Cobra III from witch space entry point to space station but it took a long time. And I wonder if it is possible to communicate with other ships. By the way, the "radio" doesn't seem to be the best feature in Oolite: It is always the same voice, and I've not found out yet how I can distinguish between messages meant for me and messages exchanged between other ships, except of course when it is clear by context. And if an attacked ship is calling for help, is it just some standard text like "please have mercy" or is he really calling _me_?

Another thing I'm still not really used to are the fuel scoops. They seem unreliable (compared to the C64 version) and sometimes they end up in a kind of loop, playing the sound over and over but not catching the freight container or asteroid splinter. Refuelling near a sun does work though. It is dangerous, but I like it because this was much too easy with the C64 version.

Finally a question: Is it only me or is wiki.alioth.net down every night?
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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Cody »

Fritz wrote:Finally a question: Is it only me or is wiki.alioth.net down every night?
Yeah, it goes down for back-up every night for an hour or so. Sounds like you're getting into the game, anyway - cool!
Fritz wrote:The Oolite universe seems so much more alive then the Elite universe. I've seen and followed convoys of ships and even joined one of them without getting attacked, I've seen police Vipers attacking pirates, and I've seen fights between two groups of ships. I've used wormholes created by other ships, I found a drifting freighter wreck in an asteroid field, I've landed in a rock hermit, I've been on an Icosahedron station (doesn't exist on the C64 version) and I've been waiting in docking queues watching arriving and departing ships.
<nods> Yep, that's the way of it - the Ooniverse lives!

I'd recommend two OXPs that have absolutely no effect on the game mechanics, but do add to the ambience: Random Ship Names and CommsPackA.

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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by Fritz »

Cody wrote:Yeah, it goes down for back-up every night for an hour or so.
Ok, then I seem to hit that hour almost every night - quite possible since it is 3:00 AM in Germany...
Sounds like you're getting into the game, anyway - cool!
Definitely, yes. But I was kind of in it from the beginning and that's why I was so "upset" about the weak lasers!
I'd recommend two OXPs that have absolutely no effect on the game mechanics, but do add to the ambience: Random Ship Names and CommsPackA.
I'll probably try them, thank you!
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Re: First experiences / difficulties

Post by phkb »

Fritz wrote:Meanwhile I even tried the injectors, but I don't use them in battle.
I find them handy to get behind ships and avoid that whole "head-on" scenario altogether. You'll find that some NPC's do something similar: you run into a group of offenders, and after a moment or two of hesitation they decide to attack. You see one ship, a Krait or a Fer-de-lance, peal off and race toward you on injectors, trying to get inside the maximum firing distance for their beam lasers.

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