unwinnable battle with the navy?

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csab
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unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by csab »

Hi,

I've been playing Oolite for a while, and as many of us, I started 25 years ago with Elite. This is my first post on the board. Anyway, I'm playing my second Navy mission, and the battle that I'm requested to assist in seems impossible to win. After killing 3-4 thargoids, I find that 5 or 6 comes on to me. Then I fly around avoiding them, but the next time I know, all my navy comrades are killed, and I'm alone against dozen of thargoid ships, no chance of winning. I could run away like a coward, but it seems to be a very unsatisfactory resolution...

Does the OXP keep track of what I did in the battle? Have you guys encountered a situation like this?

Thanks,

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by cim »

Welcome to the boards, csab.

The Galactic Navy has a fairly big problem that neither its ships nor its combat tactics are actually very well suited to fighting Thargoids, so you do have to give them a bit of a hand. Things that might help:

1) Fit a military laser to all four laser mounts if you haven't already. A Thargoid Cruiser/Battleship can take a full blast from all four lasers and may still keep coming after that. By then, though, your first laser will be cool enough to take another shot. (Of course, if you can't effectively line up a shot with your aft or side lasers, you need to practice. Thargoids are really big targets, so practice on an asteroid field first). Side laser shots are much easier to line up if you're not moving yourself, though this makes you an easier target in return.

2) The big - and perhaps only - combat disadvantage of Thargoids is their range. Their Thargoid laser has a maximum range of 17.5km, while the Thargons just have a standard pulse laser with an even shorter range. Your military lasers have a considerably longer range: make use of it. Thargoids, especially in numbers, will win a dogfight with pretty much any Galcop vessel. It's not "running away like a coward", it's "gaining a tactical advantage".

Hit and run attacks from long range, not close-in dogfighting, is the way to beat the bugs.

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by SandJ »

csab wrote:Hi,
Hllo and welome to the Friendliest Board this side of Riedquat™.
csab wrote:the battle that I'm requested to assist in seems impossible to win. After killing 3-4 thargoids, I find that 5 or 6 comes on to me. Then I fly around avoiding them, but the next time I know, all my navy comrades are killed, and I'm alone against dozen of thargoid ships, no chance of winning.
There's always a chance of winning. Including against Thargoids. You have 3 dimensions to play with, injectors for your engines, you know their tactics so you can plan and you just need to know their weaknesses. cim has already told you about their laser range. That is one weakness. Their lack of fear glands is another advantage for you.
csab wrote:I could run away like a coward,
Who the hell knows or cares? It's an open-ended game; death does not get you on any high score table!
csab wrote:I could run away like a coward, but it seems to be a very unsatisfactory resolution...
Actually, it is the easiest solution. This is where you get really good with your rear laser. They will kindly and obediently follow you forever, taking hits off your laser. And when your laser is too hot, stop, turn, hit one with the front laser until it is empty and, if you have time, each of the side lasers. When you start taking hits, face away from your target and run again until you are out of its range, but it is not out of yours. By then, your rear laser will have cooled enough to empty that onto your target again. With practice, that's 5 full lasers onto one target. Get your target back up to 30 km range, then repeat the process.

Eventually all the Thagoids will be dead, and you did it.

While shooting them, they will release the Tharglets. They need 7 shots each from a military laser.

And if you have not got 4 x Military Lasers, then WTF are you doing playing with the big boys in the Navy?
csab wrote:Does the OXP keep track of what I did in the battle? Have you guys encountered a situation like this?
35 times, according to the leaderboard.

There are other, more elegant, and more efficient ways of winning these missions in witchspace. Including complete victory in under 2 minutes. But learn how to win using lasers, first.
Flying a Cobra Mk I Cobbie 3 with nothing but Explorers Club.OXP and a beam laser 4 proper lasers for company :D
Dropbox referral link 2GB of free space online + 500 Mb for the referral: good for securing work-in-progress.

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by Smivs »

SandJ wrote: And if you have not got 4 x Military Lasers, then WTF are you doing playing with the big boys in the Navy?
Hi csab, and welcome.
This is a point worth repeating as over the years I've seen so many Commanders complaining about being overwhelmed not just by Thargoids, but other hostile vessels as well.
Tha fact is Oolite is not an 'easy' game - it wouldn't be a challenge if it was. And adding inappropriate OXPs will only make it worse. If you can't cope with the OXPs you have installed, you might have installed the wrong OXPs :wink: The general advice is to use very few OXPs to begin with, and to stick to eye-candy at first while you hone your skills and equip your ship.
After a while, when you are finding you can cope easily with all the situations you encounter, you might want to add in some of the OXPs which increase the challenge.
The same is true for OXPs which alter aspects like the economy and markets of the game. Play the core game long enough to really work-out how it functions before you start changeing things.
Many of us (myself included) eventually conclude that the core game is actually the best configuration, and prefer to play a 'straight' game with very few OXPs, mostly just those which make the game look better or toughen the core baddies to match our level of combat skill and ship's equipment.
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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by onno256 »

Running away is sometimes the best option, run away when shields get low till you're out of range. Wait for awhile untill your ship is okay again. Turn 180 degrees.
Rinse and repeat untill you've killed em all!
Wheeling an' dealing while cruisin' the galaxies

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by Pleb »

If anyone is interested I have a small customisable OXP for the Galactic Navy OXP that allows you to create random battles. You can determine how many jumps you will have to take before it begins, then what type of battle it is (Navy vs Thargoid, Navy vs Pirate, Thargoid vs Pirate), and how many ships are in the battle, such as Thargoid ships, Navy Behemoths, Frigates and Fighters and Pirate Frigates and Fighters. Note if the numbers are set too high the game can get really laggy but I tend to have 30 ships on each side, so for example a battle with 30 Thargoid ships vs 5 Navy Behemoths, 10 Navy Frigates and 15 Navy Fighters. Let me know and I will upload it to the forum and the wiki.

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by S-P »

Hello csab, I'm also a noobie to oolite. Some of the veterans have given you some sound advice on how to survive in the oolite universe. I would also make the suggestion on maybe having the right ship for the job? I came seriously unstuck in Random Hits oxp with a poorly equipped Cobra MKIII. : :oops: So I went back to it when I had a more powerful combat ship.

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by Fatleaf »

Also when fighting the Thargoids ignore the Tharglets and concentrate on the Warships, Battleships and Cruisers. all the Tharglets deactivate once there is no big ship to control it. And welcome :)
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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by Pleb »

Fatleaf wrote:Also when fighting the Thargoids ignore the Tharglets and concentrate on the Warships, Battleships and Cruisers. all the Tharglets deactivate once there is no big ship to control it. And welcome :)
Then go back and take out the deactivated Tharglets to top up those kills for that all important ------ELITE------ title! :D

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by Fatleaf »

Pleb wrote:Then go back and take out the deactivated Tharglets to top up those kills for that all important ------ELITE------ title! :D
I only shoot the ones that are over 90 credits. You will make more money scooping them and selling them to the navy. But I personally don't like the kill count for an inactive drone. A kill should be earned not given.
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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by submersible »

csab wrote:Hi,

I've been playing Oolite for a while, and as many of us, I started 25 years ago with Elite. This is my first post on the board. Anyway, I'm playing my second Navy mission, and the battle that I'm requested to assist in seems impossible to win. After killing 3-4 thargoids, I find that 5 or 6 comes on to me. Then I fly around avoiding them, but the next time I know, all my navy comrades are killed, and I'm alone against dozen of thargoid ships, no chance of winning. I could run away like a coward, but it seems to be a very unsatisfactory resolution...

Does the OXP keep track of what I did in the battle? Have you guys encountered a situation like this?

Thanks,
Don't forget that the Navy regularly has epic defeats at the hands of the Thargoids. You can read about it in the news at any naval base. Also consider that you can make a tactical retreat to the system station to rearm and possibly find some system vessels to take the heat for you. Conserving fuel for your injectors is always a good idea , jump in from the closest system you can - or better , lurk around a nearby system until another ship opens a wormhole to the target system and piggy back. Starting a Thargoid battle with a full tank of fuel for the injectors really helps with the 'blaze in - dash out' strategy.

If you think 1000 or so credits is good investment toward victory - I recommend [wiki]Hired_Guns_OXP[/wiki], your wingmen can be valuable comrades AND effective decoys.

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by Pleb »

Fatleaf wrote:
Pleb wrote:Then go back and take out the deactivated Tharglets to top up those kills for that all important ------ELITE------ title! :D
I only shoot the ones that are over 90 credits. You will make more money scooping them and selling them to the navy. But I personally don't like the kill count for an inactive drone. A kill should be earned not given.
I agree with you here, but I've never been one to ignore abusing a loop-hole slightly. :twisted: Perhaps this should be looked into, as you don't get kills for destroying asteroids so you shouldn't really get kills for deactivated Thargons.

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by Cody »

I always splash inert drones, as I rarely have room to scoop them - but kills shouldn't be awarded for them!
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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by maik »

I see it as a treat for surviving the tharglets and splashing the mother ship :mrgreen:

Oh, and it is nice target practice if you go further away. From 15km you already need to be quite precise 8)

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Re: unwinnable battle with the navy?

Post by csab »

Thank you so much for the overwhelming support and friendlyness!

Before joining the Navy I though I was a pretty good fighter with 900+ kills, and I had Military Laser on Front and Rear. I haven't learned to fight with the sides; I didn't realize people do that. Also, the system the battle happened is very isolated. The closest planet is 6 lyrs, so there wouldn't be too much fuel when I aarrive, no matter what.

After the useful tips I got here, I did two things: when I arrived to the system, I immeditely docked with the Behemoth and bought some fuel, but more importantly, I didn't jump into the thargoid crowd, but instead, staying 20-25 kms away, I harrased them, and when they came onto me, I pretended fleeing, and then I killed them with my aft laser. It also helped my fellow commanders, because the Thargoids were flying through their lines trying to get to me, and many of them were killed real fast. At the end, we had a decisive victory!!! I also vacuumed up all the thargons I found, so I made a good buck selling them inside the Behemoth.

Amazing game, so much more than Elite! I always enjoyed the more realistic physics of Frontier and FFE, so I was reluctant to go back to "no intertia", but it *is* fun.

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