Contract hauling question

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snork
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by snork »

Eric Walch wrote:The formula also makes the chance for anarchies as destination with a high time margin, higher than for more stable governments. Interesting.
I always wondered - so it really is so - great. :)

Makes absolutely sense, and makes interesting situations more likely - luring the player to finding themselves in one of them "unsafe" low-TL clusters, with good chances of high-TL equipment getting damaged. clever!
another_commander wrote:
Albee wrote:Something strange is happening, though. When I type in a planet name on the long range chart and press ctrl+^ (with the Advanced Navigation Array fitted, of course), the route is shown, but there's no report. If I traverse the cross hairs manually to a planet, there is. I can force a report on my 'target' planet, however, by typing in the name, shifting the cross hairs to its neighbour, then shifting back. I presume this is a known issue, but is it a feature? A bug? Neither of the above?
It was a bug. It should be fixed in r4893. Tomorrow's nightly should contain the fix for those willing to test.
hooray ! :fireworks:
this was always a bit kind of annoying, when I did not use the mouse for anything else.
Commander McLane wrote:May I suggest you invest in an [wiki]Advanced Navigational Array[/wiki]? And then simply follow the fastest route to your destination. No reason to calculate anything yourself. :)
I am still waiting for someone to develop the really advanced NA - where you could set waypoints. :mrgreen:
Until then for multiple contracts at the same time you still need to consider things and find the most suitable route(s) yourself.
Albee wrote: Got one, Commander, and I use it all the time -- I have the ANA to thank for my earlier successful voyages. Indeed, where a single contract is concerned, I have the utmost confidence the device will get me there in time. The problem arises when you take on additional simultaneous contracts requiring a detour from the optimum, as these inevitably result in lost time. Take on too many at once and eventually there comes a point where it's physically impossible to complete them all in time, even taking the fastest route and wasting no time in-system. Sadly, that's what happened to me. :(
But it is fun! :D
Do not take it too bad, multi-destination most efficient ways I think are a still unsolved mystery. Last thing I heard, even to modern math. That was some years ago though, when they still used soap-bubble liquid to show shortest possible track-layout for 3 or more waypoints. 8)

re the no-wasting-time : Imo. you can neglect the time "wasted" in-system. Compared to the jumps, it is close to nothing. So why not dock and have a beer, or two.

No Tequila though, that somehow seems to have strange time-robbing effects ....
Diziet Sma wrote: The clock whizzes forward ... Loading/unloading cargo adds time to the clock.
This one of the few things that doesn't add extra time to the clock.
Last edited by snork on Thu May 03, 2012 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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snork
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by snork »

Eric Walch wrote:Interesting is that the player can influence the offers. The contracts are generated when the player enters the contact screen for the first time. When he buys all of the most available commodity first, this will than be seen as a scarce commodity when he proceeds to the contract screen for the first time at that station. That way contracts for the just bought commodity are not created (or with a very low chance) and others are displayed instead.

On the other hand, when the commander first sells a commodity, so there is plenty on stock when entering the contract screen, it is more likely that you get a contract of that type. Nice way to force the increase of the lucrative contracts. :D
I meant to post about this in the topic where SandJ found out only now about the "system populating" , but now it fits here :

That is the only thing I can see as a "bug" (in that it is abusable) in the Oolite's system creating routine : when I dock and save the game before I visit the contract market, I can then reload this savegame and visit the contract market, and if I do not like it, then reload that savegame, and sell or buy some goods on the "normal" market and then visit the contract market again; and repeat doing so often enough until I find a suitable contract. :?

In my perception having cargo in the ship makes for a higher chance of finding a contract for my Cobra 3, compared to an empty cargo hold. :?

The ship market on the other hand is calculated before /independent of visiting it. Maybe at entering the system ?

------------------------

Then again, it is a player's choice if they really want to abuse this.

And I would not really want the game to "lag" even more on entering a system, because the game would do some more calculations for hypothetical future use. (maybe player doesn't visit the contract market / not even dock at main station after all.)

On my old hardware creating the contract market takes ~5 seconds.

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cim
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by cim »

snork wrote:On my old hardware creating the contract market takes ~5 seconds.
The problem is that it generates around 512 potential contracts, most of which are never seen (either because they're discarded or because only the first five are shown). Each of those contracts requires a route calculation doing. Route calculations are slow (on my presumably slightly newer system, they take about a millisecond each) so should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

It's on the list to improve this...

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snork
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by snork »

oh, cool. :)

to not be misunderstood - I do not really mind them 5seconds when I visit the contract market.
I'd only hate it if it were calculated already on system entry, just to avoid potential abuse of the system as it is now.

And wrote this only because it feels (?) as if things changing (populator) or not being fix (contract market) on game reload are (increasingly?) seen as problematic. (mostly in that SandJ's topic).

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Diziet Sma
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Diziet Sma »

snork wrote:
Diziet Sma wrote: The clock whizzes forward ... Loading/unloading cargo adds time to the clock.
This one of the few things that doesn't add extra time to the clock.
Ok.. didn't realise that.. clearly I need to pay more attention.. thanks! 8)
Most games have some sort of paddling-pool-and-water-wings beginning to ease you in: Oolite takes the rather more Darwinian approach of heaving you straight into the ocean, often with a brick or two in your pockets for luck. ~ Disembodied

Albee
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Albee »

9 contracts running simultaneously! Is this a record? Delivered 'em all on time, too. :D
Image

EDIT: I'm not bragging, honestly! Well, maybe I am a bit, but I just wanted to reassure everyone that StOobart Albee Intergalactic is a haulage firm you can trust with your goods. The last time you heard from us, we were reeling in the aftermath of a disastrous voyage and looked ripe for takeover. :wink:

EDIT2: It occurs to me StOobart might already be trading elsewhere in the Ooniverse. Better stick with the family name.

Switeck
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Switeck »

I've had at least 15 cargo contracts active at once. I know the upper limit for contracts at once has to be over 30, though that was just by grabbing impossible-to-make contracts just for testing.

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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Albee »

Switeck wrote:I've had at least 15 cargo contracts active at once. I know the upper limit for contracts at once has to be over 30, though that was just by grabbing impossible-to-make contracts just for testing.
15? I'm appropriately humbled! Albee Intergalactic need to get the consultants in, clearly. :wink:

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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Switeck »

Just the results of way too much poking and prodding at cargo contracts.
Once you define all the "rules" of the game, it's possible to find loopholes.
But if you're like me, loopholes will usually find you first.

Albee
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Albee »

Has anyone seen this apparent glitch before? It's telling me I have no time to deliver this cargo, which is at odds with the delivery information below in green.

Image

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Eric Walch
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Eric Walch »

I never saw it before, but the fact that there is a string for it, tells already that this is anticipated.

However, I can easy reproduce it by visiting that page and than doing some time consuming stuff. e.g. buying some very expensive equipment and than wait till it is installed. When you than arrive, all contracts time out. It seems deliberate that no new contracts are generated as long you stay in the system. :lol:

With the console you can easy test: Visit the market, so contracts are generated. Then launch, type in the console: clock.addSeconds(11*24*3600) and dock again. (leaving the station is not needed but is shows better that the old contracts stay valid)

EDIT:
I now really read you question correct. It is an Oolite bug. the text in green is generated on entering that page the first time. The upper text and times are recalculated every time you visit the page. :twisted:
Last edited by Eric Walch on Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Commander McLane »

I'd say that the text below should be changed to reflect the passed time as well. Now it looks like you still have plenty of time (2 days 12 hours).

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Kaks
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Kaks »

As of rev5318 (i.e. tomorrow's trunk build) the green text below is refreshed whenever you select a passenger/contract row.

As it was, Oolite would still allow people to get contracts they'd have no hope to fulfil. In trunk, all contracts with an estimated departure time in the past are now greyed out, to minimize the risk of inadvertently causing a commander to lose his/her reputation as a reliable contractor...

Hope this helps! :)
Hey, free OXPs: farsun v1.05 & tty v0.5! :0)

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Kaks
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Kaks »

More developments on that!

It has now come to my attention that quite a few contracts can still be fulfilled even if they're past their estimated departure time. So I've tweaked trunk and in there you'll still be able to pick contracts for some time after their estimated departure time: however, they'll be highlighed in orange to alert you of the fact they won't be available for long!


And to their more risky nature too, I suppose! :P
Hey, free OXPs: farsun v1.05 & tty v0.5! :0)

Switeck
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Re: Contract hauling question

Post by Switeck »

Thanks, because some of the contracts are still doable even after they're estimated to not have enough time. They'll just require you to piggy-back on npc wormholes and/or refuel by sun-skimming...or some other means to mostly avoid the 20 minutes needed docking with a station and buying more fuel.

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