Energy bomb [Solved]

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m4r35n357
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Energy bomb [Solved]

Post by m4r35n357 »

Just been updating Furball to comply the latest trunk changes, noticed version number is now 1.77 and confirmed that there is no longer an Energy Bomb :(

Although I will release my modifications on this occasion, my motivation to continue to support this game is at a very low point ATM. I still haven't heard a remotely convincing argument for removing it. What the hell were you guys thinking? Who are you to take away a part of the game that means so much to so many? In short, I am disgusted, just wanted to say that in no uncertain terms.
Last edited by m4r35n357 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by Disembodied »

m4r35n357 wrote:I still haven't heard a remotely convincing argument for removing it.
I'm not on the dev team, but the argument which convinces me is that it's a player-only device. It's not possible to give NPCs energy bombs, for the obvious reason that inflicting random death on players is disastrously bad game design. It would be possible to ignore the player-centricity of the e-bomb, and allow this special player-only device to remain in the game; but since elsewhere the game makes a concerted effort to create and maintain the illusion that the player does *not* occupy a privileged place in the game universe, and since the escape capsule already provides the player with a "oops I messed up" button, getting rid of what is just an arcade-style smart bomb a la Defender makes sense to me.

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by m4r35n357 »

Disembodied wrote:
m4r35n357 wrote:I still haven't heard a remotely convincing argument for removing it.
I'm not on the dev team, but the argument which convinces me is that it's a player-only device. It's not possible to give NPCs energy bombs, for the obvious reason that inflicting random death on players is disastrously bad game design. It would be possible to ignore the player-centricity of the e-bomb, and allow this special player-only device to remain in the game; but since elsewhere the game makes a concerted effort to create and maintain the illusion that the player does *not* occupy a privileged place in the game universe, and since the escape capsule already provides the player with a "oops I messed up" button, getting rid of what is just an arcade-style smart bomb a la Defender makes sense to me.
So you don't have to use it if you think it's "unrealistic". Preventing others from doing so is selfish. Pretty much everything in the game can be tuned to taste, but this is something very different.

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by Disembodied »

m4r35n357 wrote:So you don't have to use it if you think it's "unrealistic". Preventing others from doing so is selfish. Pretty much everything in the game can be tuned to taste, but this is something very different.
I don't think it's "unrealistic" – we're flying spaceships through wormholes, after all! :) I think it's a poor piece of game design. You're right, people don't have to use it if they don't want to, but removing it from the core game means that the core game is, I think, better. Things like the Constrictor mission, for example, is now more challenging; you can't just fly up near him and push a button to win.

I've not used the e-bomb for a very long time (although I have accidentally bought one on a number of occasions through not paying attention when refuelling, which is irksome), so I'm not in the best position to judge ... what's it good for, beyond making the game easier?

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by m4r35n357 »

Disembodied wrote: I don't think it's "unrealistic" – we're flying spaceships through wormholes, after all! :) I think it's a poor piece of game design. You're right, people don't have to use it if they don't want to, but removing it from the core game means that the core game is, I think, better. Things like the Constrictor mission, for example, is now more challenging; you can't just fly up near him and push a button to win.

I've not used the e-bomb for a very long time (although I have accidentally bought one on a number of occasions through not paying attention when refuelling, which is irksome), so I'm not in the best position to judge ... what's it good for, beyond making the game easier?
Yeah I get the realism argument, but this isn't really about winning arguments, it's about certain people (and I don't know exactly who so this isn't an attack) dictating how others should play the game. Not on.

From my POV the E-bomb is a rare treat, makes a great crunching sound (with BGS?) and is just one way of dealing with idiotic pirates who attack a lone ship with nothing else in scanner range, a sort of "darwin award" ;) And it's part of Elite, which some of us quite liked, despite it's "realism" issues.

As for cheating, it's not very efficient; you can only carry one at a time, and you can't always replace it. And talk of "cheating" is a good indicator of the "dictating" attitude that I mentioned earlier. Removing a historical feature to prevent cheating is just control freakery IMO.

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by maik »

Wasn't it the plan to keep it in strict mode? I don't play with trunk so what is the current state?

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by m4r35n357 »

maik wrote:Wasn't it the plan to keep it in strict mode? I don't play with trunk so what is the current state?
Strict mode? No OXPs? Does anyone use this? Is this really supposed to be a concession?

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by Smivs »

Well, we were told this was coming.
I also am a little concerned about this, not because I use them in normal play which I don't, but because they are so much part of the Elite heritage.
Honestly, I have more problems with Q-bombs which just destroy anything and everything (except for main stations - why not? Why are they immune?).
The problem with the e-bomb is not so much game balance (that NPCs don't have them) but that the balance is wrong in terms of their effect. IIRC in Elite the e-bomb was effective against small (low energy) ships like Sidewinders and Mambas. A good Cobby3 or Boa was strong enough to survive them (just) and that's the way it should be. If this was the case NPCs could have them as well. Being taken out by an e-bomb while you are weakened is no different to being killed by a missile in similar situations. There will always be times (there should be, I'd say) when there is nothing you can do. You're dead and that's that.
I should also state that I do find e-bombs very useful during testing when survival is vital. I believe provision for this has been made as a 'developer' version of the game will be issued. Ha, I wonder if that will in practice become the most commonly used version?
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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by m4r35n357 »

Smivs wrote:Well, we were told this was coming.

The problem with the e-bomb is not so much game balance (that NPCs don't have them) but that the balance is wrong in terms of their effect. IIRC in Elite the e-bomb was effective against small (low energy) ships like Sidewinders and Mambas. A good Cobby3 or Boa was strong enough to survive them (just) and that's the way it should be. If this was the case NPCs could have them as well. Being taken out by an e-bomb while you are weakened is no different to being killed by a missile in similar situations. There will always be times (there should be, I'd say) when there is nothing you can do. You're dead and that's that.
Just because we were told doesn't mean we like it . . .
But yeah when you die you don't always know it _wasn't_ an E-bomb. BTW I agree about the degree of damage, but that's a much smaller issue and easily fixed I reckon.

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by another_commander »

m4r35n357: Open equipment.plist, find the bomb entry. You will see:

Code: Select all

(
	7, 9000, "Energy Bomb",
	"EQ_ENERGY_BOMB",
	"A one-shot super-weapon capable of destroying all small craft within range.",
	{
		strict_mode_only = true;
	}
),
Change the line that reads strict_mode_only = true; to strict_mode_only = false; and you get your bomb back.

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by m4r35n357 »

another_commander wrote: Change the line that reads strict_mode_only = true; to strict_mode_only = false; and you get your bomb back.
Interesting. Will that work in all future versions?

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by another_commander »

Hopefully ;-)

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by Smivs »

another_commander wrote:m4r35n357: Open equipment.plist, find the bomb entry. You will see:

Code: Select all

(
	7, 9000, "Energy Bomb",
	"EQ_ENERGY_BOMB",
	"A one-shot super-weapon capable of destroying all small craft within range.",
	{
		strict_mode_only = true;
	}
),
Change the line that reads strict_mode_only = true; to strict_mode_only = false; and you get your bomb back.
Thanks, that's worth knowing. Will this apply to the full release as well?

Relating to my points above regarding its 'use', I'd forgotten that it is advertised as
"A one-shot super-weapon capable of destroying all small craft within range."
That's what it should be doing. At the moment it kills medium and large ships as well :wink:
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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by m4r35n357 »

another_commander wrote:Hopefully ;-)
Sounds promising, do you think we could get an official pronouncement on that? I'd really like my Elite posting to be a happy one ;)

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Re: Energy bomb, yes they really did it

Post by Cody »

another_commander wrote:m4r35n357: Open equipment.plist, find the bomb entry. You will see:

Code: Select all

(
	7, 9000, "Energy Bomb",
	"EQ_ENERGY_BOMB",
	"A one-shot super-weapon capable of destroying all small craft within range.",
	{
		strict_mode_only = true;
	}
),
Change the line that reads strict_mode_only = true; to strict_mode_only = false; and you get your bomb back.
Heh.. some sort of time-warp here!

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